HI again. I would like to sell this hopney as local if i can, but the hives it came from are about 90 miles away. I am not sure if there is a definition of "local" and an actual diameter of area that would draw a line. To my reasoning, if the terrain, forage,environment, etc, is the same it should be able to be considered local. In other words, if my area is flat with wildflowers, goldenrod, alfalfa farms, indian paintbrush and grassland, and the the hives are 100 miles away but in an identical environment, then that should be local. On the other hand, if your hives are only 30 miles away and that area is mountainous and filled with pine trees, then probably not. Is there a bottom line?
WDYT?
the old saying is dealing with allergies and pollen in the honey, Local being with-in 50 miles from where you live or selling the honey. that's what I have always gone by was that saying...
Hopeful, I think you have a legitimate point. If all things considered are roughly the same your honey could be considered local further away. I don't know if there is in fact a magic or specific number though. In thinking of where I live there is no way I could with a straight face say I had local honey if my bees were 90 miles away. I have heard the thing about eating honey from your local area and have heard the number being 25 miles from where a person lives to be considered local. I'm glad that honey you harvested tastes good.
I was told the same distance as TWT. 50 miles. Just sell it as Oklahoma Honey. The Sooner you buy some, the Sooner you'll enjoy! or Plains Honey-Plain and simply the Best!
Quote from: Hopeful on November 13, 2007, 08:17:55 AM
HI again. I would like to sell this hopey as local if i can, but the hives it came from are about 90 miles away.
I have same thing. I live in capital city and cannot offer local honey. Distance is 153 km.
And local food? Chinese restaurant is the nearest food place.
That local honey and allergy. I do not believe it. Hey fewer comes from wind pollinating plants and honey comes from insect pollinating plants. But if some one become happy, let it burn!
We have a law about honest advertising. It is not possible to say what ever comes into mind. If someone complains on your, you are in piss.
.
My theory of local is the average distance that most people in a given area will travel to shop and go to stores which can vary a great deal. Some places people never get farther than a few miles from where they live like in larger cities. You would be hard pressed to call your product local 50 miles away but in rural areas where you have to drive 50 miles to get anywhere it would be. Does that make any sense to you all ?
Quote from: CBEE on November 13, 2007, 03:06:22 PM
My theory of local is the average distance that most people in a given area will travel to shop and go to stores which can vary a great deal. Some places people never get farther than a few miles from where they live like in larger cities. You would be hard pressed to call your product local 50 miles away but in rural areas where you have to drive 50 miles to get anywhere it would be. Does that make any sense to you all ?
In south Finland 50 miles is not local but when we go to Lapland over polar circle, 200 miles may be enough local, depending where is the first honey hive or potato field.
Bees cover an area approximatly 2 miles/ 3.2 KM. So let's say you live just 15 miles from town but you are 3000 ft/ 1km difference in elevation. The plant life that grows at that elevation may be nothing like the plant life that grows near the city. Let's make it even simpler. You are 5 miles from the city and you are in the middle of a farming communty or an orchard. Those apples, oranges or whatever will be the plants your bees are working are what they are gathering pollen from. However is it local honey probably not in one sense and yes in another.
I am not sure I buy the allergy thing myself but I am not above catering to those who believe it. The problem is when none of the plants that are causing the allergies are being worked on by your bees. My bees work plants that grow from here to Miami. But I don't think I would tell people in Miami my honey is local. I don't like telling them that the orange blossom honey the association sells is local because the orange groves are 10 miles out.
it is very nice honey but is it local, I am not sure.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
I don't know about the benefits of local honey either but this old guy that lived about three miles from me wanted my honey because his doctor told him to eat local honey, it would do him good.
Finsky.. you just made my point.
i would let the buyer decide.
well in many ways local can be more or less than 50 miles depend on the forage plants, but 50 mile is a good baseto go buy, besides most customers live closer than that unless you are selling online then why would you call it local honey??
I have sold honey and given away honey to people who SWEAR that my honey helped with their allergies. Hey, what's good for them is good for me. ;)
Quote from: KONASDAD on November 13, 2007, 10:35:29 AM
Just sell it as Oklahoma Honey. The Sooner you buy some, the Sooner you'll enjoy! or Plains Honey-Plain and simply the Best!
Konasdad, you're a poet and didn't know it.
>>>>>Just sell it as Oklahoma Honey. The Sooner you buy some, the Sooner you'll enjoy! or Plains Honey-Plain and simply the Best!<<<<<
The honey is called "Mrs. Sweetie's Oklahoma Gold". I named it after the pet name I call my wife by. It is an allusion to "Chicken Run" where the bad woman was "Mrs. Tweedy". Since my wife is the opposite, I call her "Mrs. Sweetie". The "Oklahoma Gold" was added because people in Oklahoma are very proud of their state prefer to buy things that refer to Oklahoma, Sooners football, cowboys or Native Americans. The name Oklahoma Gold alludes to both the old west and to the state of Oklahoma. We made our first sales yesterday, and have at least two stores carrying it so far. It appears tha the onl potential problem may that we do not have enough honey. The good news is that thereare a couple of local beekepers who have offered to sell bulk hone to us if this happens. We will not make as much profit that way, but it keeps the customers happy and propagates the brand name.
Thanks for all the input and help. I will not sell this batch as local.
When are scientist like politicians?
When you try to get a straight answer out of them. :-P
Sometimes I feel like I am the moderator at a bad debate where everyone is dodging the question. I like this thread so much that I ask the three big wigs in my area a question:
What is local honey?
You would have thought I was discussing the denisty of quasars. So below is my email their respones.
To :
Dr. James Ellis
Dr. Malcom Sanford
Dr. Jerry Hayes
From :
Brendhan Horne
Topic:
Local Honey
Gentleman,
I having to come up with a definitive answer for a question that may not
have one.
What defines local honey?
The question is coming up on the forum I am part of (beemaster.com). And
I have
thought about this.
Outside of the debatable issue on selling local honey as an aid in
pollen allergies. I have several
other items that come to the forefront of this issue.
Bees cover an area approximately 2 miles/ 3.2 KM. So let's say you live
just 15 miles from town but you are 3000 ft/ 1km difference in
elevation(This is possible outside of Florida). The plant life that
grows at that elevation may be nothing like the plant life that grows
near the city. Let's make it even simpler. You are 5 miles from the city
and you are in the middle of a farming community or an orchard. Those
apples, oranges or whatever will be the plants your bees are working are
what they are gathering pollen from. However is it local honey probably
not in one sense and yes in another.
I am not sure I buy the allergy thing myself but I am not above catering
to those who believe it. The problem is when none of the plants that are
causing the allergies are being worked on by your bees. My bees work
plants that grow from here to Miami. But I don't think I would tell
people in Miami my honey is local. I don't like telling them that the
orange blossom honey the association sells is local because the orange
groves are 10 miles out.
it is very nice honey but is it local, I am not sure.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
The response from Dr. Jerry Hayes:
I think I will let Jamie and Malcolm take the lead on this but I have
always thought that the colonies in my backyard that I harvest honey
from and eat myself was "local". It is all semantics. Thanks Jerry
The response from Dr. Malcom Sanford:
I agree. Local is whatever you call local.
The response from Dr. James Ellis:
Hey Brendhan,
To complete the trio...there is no "definition" of local. I live 1 mile out of High Springs and I would have no issues selling my honey has local within 10-15 miles of High Springs. I would not (however) sell it as local in G-ville (20 miles away). It is what you want it to be (unfortunately).
As a caveat, I would say that people wanting "local" honey for their allergies would be satisfied if you were able to convince them that your bees are collecting honey/pollen on flowers that occur in your customer's area. I, personally, would not push the "local" aspect on them if they were in Miami and you lived in W. Palm, but I would try to educate them that bees will be visiting the same floral sources in both locations.
There is a lot in our industry that is this ambiguous.
For what it's worth........
Jamie
Well at least Jamie made an effort.
So I am going to set the (un)offical beemaster.com regulation on what constitutes local honey.
1. Your honey must come from honeybees.
2. You honey must be from within a 10 mile area.
3. Local honey sold for the allergy issue than must also be from a similar terrain and be harvested from similar plants in the area. If you are on a mountain that grows plant life exclusive to that mountain your honey can be exclusive but not local for purposes of allergy remidies.
4. If you honey is harvested from more than 10 miles away but the plant life is similar you may market it as suitable for allergies but not as local honey.
5. Your honey must be raw.
Suggestions Welcome.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
Brendhan, I like those answers, with two exceptions.
First, The ten mile rule probably is a bit ureasonable for Oklahoma, where bees and beekeepers are generally pretty spread out. I get the feeling that all beekeepers in the state are related by blood here except for me, but are a hundred miles apart. Many small rural areas, and the bees are kept on seperate farms covering large areas. Some farms are ten miles across here.
Second, Rule #1 seems a bit sketchy to me. Really, to expect ALL of our honey to come from honey bees? What do I do with all the honey I am getting from my yellow jacket hives? (Come to think of it, most of the yellow jackets are trying to take up residence in the honey bee hives, then what? Mixed honey? There oughta be a law!). And you should see how much fun it is to visit those hives! I am pretty sure Africanized bees are just yellow jackets wearing little italian bee suits and speaking with an accent, "You robba my honey, I stinga you face!" :-D
Quote from: Hopeful on November 15, 2007, 09:53:09 AM
Brendhan, I like those answers, with two exceptions.
First, The ten mile rule probably is a bit ureasonable for Oklahoma, where bees and beekeepers are generally pretty spread out. I get the feeling that all beekeepers in the state are related by blood here except for me, but are a hundred miles apart. Many small rural areas, and the bees are kept on seperate farms covering large areas. Some farms are ten miles across here.
What would be a good range?
As you mentioned some farms are 10 miles across. So what good is that to someone in a town 20 miles away? I am not being flipant, my question is how far will pollen flow that causes allergies. I suspect pretty far, but does corn, wheat, or sugar really cause as much in allegies as flowering plants. If the pollen goes a great distance than maybe local honey should have a greater range. The discussion with my wife was that local farming produce is considered within 100 miles. But my counter point was that we are dealing with local honey and honey that is good for allergies. I would understand a 100 mile area for local honey but not for allergies.
Quote
Second, Rule #1 seems a bit sketchy to me. Really, to expect ALL of our honey to come from honey bees? What do I do with all the honey I am getting from my yellow jacket hives? (Come to think of it, most of the yellow jackets are trying to take up residence in the honey bee hives, then what? Mixed honey? There oughta be a law!). And you should see how much fun it is to visit those hives! I am pretty sure Africanized bees are just yellow jackets wearing little italian bee suits and speaking with an accent, "You robba my honey, I stinga you face!" :-D
:-D :-D :-D
Because if your honey isn't coming from bees I ain't touching your honey.
:-D :-D :-D
In another note you bring up a good point. What about mixed blend honey? If I mix honey from an orange farm with wildflower honey, both can be local. One may even help with allergies.
I would not have a problem with that.
If you mixed it with something from outside the surrounding area. I would have to say that is not local.
There is nothing wrong with honey not being local or not being suitable for allergies most of the supermarket honey is blended crap. However if you are looking to work with your niche you want to market what is better about your honey. In some cases it may be that it is fresh and raw.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
longitude and altitude may be more important to mainting consistant floral sources.
.
Texas is 3 times size of Finland and only half of Finland is valid to beekeeping (Texas honey)
Africa is 3 times size of Europa (African honey)
USA is 9631418 square kilometres.
10 miles radius is 804 square kilometres
USA would have so 12 000 local honey areas.
Africa would have 37 000 local honeys.
Sahara desert would have 11 000 local honeys
Finland would have 300 local honeys. (Lapland not included)
Russia would have 21 000 local honeys, tundra included.
AND ALL ARE LOCAL, WHERE EVER YOU GO!
.
So what finsky is saying is.. Where ever you are at ... there ya are.. you are local :-D
Quote from: CBEE on November 16, 2007, 09:17:14 AM
you are local :-D
Jep, that is smart - if I may classify this gang!
and Slovenia qualifies for half local honey :shock: :roll: :lol: 8-)
if conditions are the same, you shouldn't have problem mixing them, although, many beeks have said that within a honey stand they can find huge differences in honey (that is, from hive to hive, same location, same conditions) so...if you really wanted to label your honey right it should be:
location, hive#/name, date etc etc. :-D
Now that we have figured out what local means :roll: Let me throw another word into the mix.
Ever heard of "micro climate"?
Quote from: Jerrymac on November 16, 2007, 11:33:06 AM
Now that we have figured out what local means :roll: Let me throw another word into the mix.
Ever heard of "micro climate"?
In reference to a type of gardening refered to as xeriscaping. I am sure it could have a broader meaning but that is where I am familar with it. Xeriscaping is almost an indoctrination in Florida.
It was interesting because you could be in someplace like the San Francisco Bay area and twenty miutes later your on top of a mountain. That is why I think the elevation, terrain, and surrounding area plant life are such a factor.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
Quote from: Jerrymac on November 16, 2007, 11:33:06 AM
Now that we have figured out what local means :roll: Let me throw another word into the mix.
Ever heard of "micro climate"?
In the State of Washington we have micro climates that are similar to every state in the union with 2 exceptions: 1. Florida and 2. Hawaii. We have no semi-tropical or tropical swamps. There are places along the Columbia River in eastern Washington that would make you think of the deserts of Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, or Utah. In my area, due to the affect that Vancouver Island has on the trade winds, every Island has a different climate. Southwest Washington (Longbeach) reminds me of the eastern seaboard. except the oceans on the west instead of the east. I could go on but won't.