I have acquired a hot water urn (boiler) and would like some step by step advice on how i can modify it to run my steam knife from it.
Any plans or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Chela
Sydney, Australia
Chela, welcome, you have found the right place to get some help with your queery, and the answers will come, be patient, wait. I cannot help you with this, but we have many great members with lots of information. Welcome, tell us a little bit about yourself so we can get to know you better. Then...have a wonderful and great day. Cindi
Hi Cindi,
This is a nice surprise - it is the first time in any forum that i have been welcomed in this way - thank you :)
I am looking forward to spending quite a bit of time here getting to know you guys as well as learning and sharing as much as i can.
Compared to some of the folks on here i am relatively new to beekeeping as i have only been playing with bees for about 5 years. I live in Sydney, Australia and keep my bees in a very beautiful part of the world called Jervis Bay (about 2 1/2 hours drive south of Sydney) - it boasts natural bushland, many pristine beaches as well as having the whitest sand in the world.
My honey is mainly from Eucalyptus trees and other native flora, i have 6 beehives and recently purchased a Swienty "World extractor" which is a horizontal plane radial extractor.
Look forward to spending time here, have a great day !!!
Chela
I don't know what you got but the old days the steam generator was just like a pot you put on a stove or hot plate.The steam went out through a hose to the knife and returned to the pot.It has been a long time .But the steam or hot water circluated.
kirko
Here's a company in Australia you can contact. They might offer you some assistance.
http://www.bindaree.com.au/pricelists/products/uncapping_knife_steam.htm
Thanks Guys,
The descriptions Kirk-o and Dick provided make things much clearer for me and i think i am now on the right track.
The icing on the cake would be a picture or two :)
Cheers
Chela
The one essential thing every steam system HAS to have is some kind of "pop off" to set a maximum pressure so it doesn't explode. A thermostat of some kind is the next most useful thing. After that it's all pipes etc. but I really don't know how they get the steam to a knife with a flexible hookup.
The flex line could possibly be a wire braided heater core line for a car. I think it would handle the light pressure fairly well. I would of course step and and do a few test runs on it before I got burnt from a hose coming off.
Have you thought about buying an electric version ? I know they are not cheap but by the time you get all the components to make your system you may be spending the same amount of money. You also dont have to worry about blowing yourself up or getting scalded. Your lines would need to be an insulated type also because they will be hotter than you think. what you have my be a small system but that doesn't mean it can't hurt ya
Cbee,
I already have a steam knife and in addition to this i want to be able to heat my capping's tank and extractor to allow for easier extraction and separation of honey from the wax, so steam seems to be the most economical and sustainable way to go.
Chela
Chela, thank you for the kind words. Now......once you have been a member for a little time, you will be "allowed" to post pictures and links to websites, but it takes a few posts, protocol. If you have a digital camera, and you want to post pictures right away, you can send to one of the Moderators of our forum and they can put them on our forum for you. I don't know how many posts you need to make before you can post pictures, not too many.
It is wonderful to see how people beekeep around the world, the pictures posted by our forum members are wonderful. It allows us to go into your piece of this ol' world, not just in our mind's eye, and it is something that I look forward to, these beautiful pictures. So keep this in mind, tell us of you, where you live and your beehives. You will see different forums here, one in particular is for members to post pictures of anything. Have a wonderful and beautiful day, it sounds like your bees are in a beautiful place. Cindi
The nice thing about a steam knife is that it never gets too hot and burns the honey...
Doncha just LOVE the "INTERNATIONALNESS -Ness" of this forum!
WOWEE, I am tickled Pink~*~*~ :-D
Hi there Chela,
Great to have another Australian onboard!
Is your urn / boiler a pressure cooker? I don't know if there is one near you, but if you go to clark rubber, you should be able to find some tubing that can withstand the required heat to run to your steam knife. I think I've seen people using standard garden hose on them too. Now the fitting you need to attach the hose to the boiler, and perhaps a circlip, I don't really know where you can get those. I think if you can find the tubing you use on radiators at clark rubber, you can probably a circlip at the same shop to attach it to the hose, but I'm not sure about attaching it to the boilder. I've looked around at the obvious places such as Bunnings, and when I ask they usually give me a blank look, and then after some hesitation point me towards something which is useless. I'll have a think about it though and maybe I'll think of something.
Other, would you be able to give me some info on your extractor, or perhaps a link to a company which sells it?
I'm from a place called Healesville, about 60 k's NW of Melbourne. I'm running about 10 hives too. Mainly messamate here, with a bit of manna gum, peppermint gum, and the blackberries in the late spring / early summer.
James.
What does the connection look like that you are connecting the hose to ?
If it is what I think it is then any auto parts store will have a hose clamp the size you need. Get the screw type that you tighten down with a screwdriver. If I had a picture of the fitting I am sure I can tell you what you need to hook it up. Do you know the working pressure of your system ?
Regardless of the setup you design, definitely check for a safety popoff like Michael said. The only experience I had with steam was basically an "open" system, which meant minimal, practically no pressure. The "used" water does not need to return to the boiler. The temp never exceeds the boiling point of the liquid being vaporized unless you let it boil dry, have a restriction such as a kinked or incorrectly sized hose (back pressure), or are pumping too much heat too fast into the boiler. The output from your knife could be something as simple as a tube running down into a bucket of water. Steam would be trapped by the cooler water (condenser) so that your work area would not turn into a sweatlodge. Put a little pitch (fall) in the whole system so that water condensing in the line goes out the exhaust hose rather than making a plug and blowing out in spurts. When done, remove the hose from the water bucket and turn off the heat, again-don't kink the hose or the can will collapse upon cooling. If you are unsure or uneasy about anything with steam, don't do it. I saw a video once of a water heater with a bad safety popoff. When it blew up it went up through the floors (that means joists too) and roof of a house and into the sky, steam has enormous energy in it.
Thanks for the warning BenC i will be diligent with my hoses and connections, i remember in school we made a hot can crush inwards after poring cold water on it...it was amazing the power that steam has :shock:
James, great to meet a fellow Australian on here........ its funny.....how we need to go overseas to meet people in the same country lol.
I have found some of those hose clamps and the hose i have is braided inside ie reinforce pressure hose that is also temperature rated - expensive but will do the job.
The boiler i have is an urn, its not a pressure cooker - i do have a small pressure cooker and can easily take the pressure valve from it to put onto the urn.
James are you on acreage ? and have you had any trouble with Small hive beetles?
Regards
Chela
James,
Details of my extractor may be seen on the "Swienty" Website in Denmark, the item is "World-Extractor
Item No.: 108600
Price:
EUR 300,00 Incl. VAT
EUR 240,00 Ex VAT
This forum won't let me post a URL yet, just google swienty and it is the first one that comes up
It sells for 240 Euros from the manufacturer in Denmark- current exchange rate means about AUD $400, I need to point out a few important points:-
## It would be much cheaper to buy from the states if you can find a supplier there that can ship through UPS, FEDex or
similar large freight company
## Buying direct through Denmark proved excessively expensive - Swienty shipped via their
forwarding agency which charged me an addittional AUD$240 for clearing and handling - on top of the initial 70 Euro (AUD
$116) freight to get it to Australia - Had it been shipped via UPS etc the AUD $240 would have been absorbed in the initial
freight cost.
## The extractor didn't come with instructions (not really needed but would have been nice)
## The extractor was taped up to stop damage whilst in transit - only problem was that the glue left from the tape
took me 2 hours to remove, tried everything without success, finally was told to use isopropyl alcohol which worked but
with a lot of sweat.
The extractor quality i would give an 8/10 the legs and pulley covers could have been made with a slightly thicker metal otherwise it is cleverly made and should last.
Will literally give it a spin next week when i crack open my hives :)
I believe there is a supplier now in Australia (Penders Beekeeping Supplies near New Castle - approx 2 hrs north of Sydney) they were selling it for about AUD$650.
Hope this helps
Chela
Hi there Chela,
Thanks for all the info on the extractor. I'll check out the Penders site and see if there is anything on it.
I'm on about 20 acres in my home town, and I have a few other sites around where I can move them if I want, with different Eucalypts, and hence different flows.
No problems with SHB this far south yet, but the commercial apiarists are very concerned about it. As it stands this years honey production in Victoria will be well below average due to the drought.
With regards to the urn, if its not pressurised, I'm not sure if you will have enough steam for your extractor, knife and reducer. I've picked up a few pressure cookers, usually for under $10 each.
Yeah, cool to have another aussie!
Chela,
If you use the open type system described a couple posts above running the outlet hose into a bucket of water there should be enough steam created to run your system. The small inner diameter of your hose will create just enough back pressure to generate steam ( think of the whistle on a tea pot ) and the blow off valve should ensure pressure relief if a hose gets kinked or clogged. The tricky part is regulating the heat on the boiler. You also need to remeber as the water level drops in the boiler the heat requirement changes. What is the size of your boiler ? how much water does it hold ?
CBEE
My boiler holds 10 litres and it has two elements in it one for low and one for medium heat, so i could regulate the heating as the water level drops.
My only question now is what can i use as a seal for the lid ?
The lid is just that... a sheet metal pressed lid with a handle and two holes which i can affix an outlet pipe on one hole and the pressure blow off valve on the other hole, there are no clamps or seal to hold the lid down and pressure in - the clamps i can make but i will still need to make a seal to ensure pressure can be built up - just don't know what i can use ?....perhaps silicone ??
Chela
Merry Christmas all! :).
Are you sure the urn can withstand a build-up of pressure. Pressure cookers are of heavier construction than standard cookware, that's why they can. If it has a lower pressure threshold than the blow-off valve, then it will literally blow its top off. Bad for the ceiling, and worse for you if you're standing next to it. Also, under pressure, maybe water could find its way into the element electrics, which could be even worse for the ceiling.
After celebrating Christmas in Thailand, I have quite the hangover :(. Its to do with the heat I think. Ok, maybe a little to do with dodgy Thai beer and red wine ;).
James.
Way to go James....must be the heat, couldn't possibly be the beer and wine ;) at least that would be my story too and i would be sticking to it lol
Silly i know, but it didn't occur to me that the urn may have a problem with the pressure but then again i'm not sure that there would be that much pressure given that the steam is escaping and not being bottled up - perhaps someone who is using one of these could shed some light on how much pressure it could generate ????
Cheers
Chela
Quote from: Chela on December 26, 2007, 04:08:42 AM
Silly i know, but it didn't occur to me that the urn may have a problem with the pressure but then again i'm not sure that there would be that much pressure given that the steam is escaping and not being bottled up.
Yeah, you might be right there. Running just a steam knife, I very much doubt there would be enough build-up of pressure to do any real damage. Running a steam knife, plus extractor coil and a reducer, you might have a little more back pressure and it might be a bit more of an issue.
I like the pressure cooker, because I can put it on a gas stove (even a mini one) and therefore don't need to be near mains power to do an extraction. Don't know if that will be an issue for you.
I'm teaching English in Thailand. I had some of my very cute yet very vocal kinder kids this afternoon, wasn't that fun with a pounding headache!
James.
Your lid may not need a seal and clamps to generate enough steam to run a knife or something small. Look how much steam a tea kettle makes and it has the same type of lid. Running more than a knife may be a problem and it sounds to me like your boiler was not made for more than that. If it had no original seal and no way to clamp the lid to create pressure then it was never designed to hold real pressure of any kind in my book. Even with the blow off valve you may be asking for trouble if this thing is just made out of sheetmetal. Even small pressure cookers are made of fairly hefty material as stated in one of the above posts.
CBEE,
Now you have got me thinking again... :(
Chela