Hey everyone,
I'm new to beekeeping, and I'm planning on getting my first bees this year. I could use any advice you can give me. My plan is to get two hives, the beginner kit and expansion kit from Betterbee. If I buy two three pound packages from Rossman Apiaries, I think I can get all of this for about $500. I was thinking about going with the ten frame hive, but I've heard some people say that 8 is better. What is your opinion? Also, I'm not sure when I should order the bees. I know I should wait till after winter, but winters aren't very severe in Georgia. Thank you so much for your help!
~Amanda
Order your bees now, they won't be delivered until spring, and if you wait too long they could be sold out. Don't forget to order Queens, too! LOL
Other than that, read this forum every day, and buy some books, and if there is a beekeepers' assoc. in your area, join it!
Hi Amanda, Welcome to the board :-D
As for the difference between 8 or 10 frame equipment, the eights are smaller, lighter and more managable. Betterbee is an excellent supplier, I've been buying from them 3 years now and they are just great to do business with.
Quote from: Amanda on January 09, 2008, 02:40:39 PM
Hey everyone,
I'm new to beekeeping, and I'm planning on getting my first bees this year. I could use any advice you can give me. My plan is to get two hives, the beginner kit and expansion kit from Betterbee. If I buy two three pound packages from Rossman Apiaries, I think I can get all of this for about $500. I was thinking about going with the ten frame hive, but I've heard some people say that 8 is better. What is your opinion? Also, I'm not sure when I should order the bees. I know I should wait till after winter, but winters aren't very severe in Georgia. Thank you so much for your help!
~Amanda
Well, The reason people use 8 frame hives is they weigh less and are easier to lift. A full 10 frame deep is heavy and some people just cant lift them or dont want to due to medical reasons such as a bad back. A lot of people here use all mediums ( 8 or 10 frame ) for brood box and honey supers because they are easier to manipulate for more than one reason. 3 mediums = 2 deeps .. Things get heavier as you get older :roll: 90 lbs weighs more than it did 20 years ago :-D :-D
Quote from: CBEE on January 09, 2008, 03:25:12 PM
Well, The reason people use 8 frame hives is they weigh less and are easier to lift. A full 10 frame deep is heavy and some people just cant lift them or dont want to due to medical reasons such as a bad back. A lot of people here use all mediums ( 8 or 10 frame ) for brood box and honey supers because they are easier to manipulate for more than one reason. 3 mediums = 2 deeps .. Things get heavier as you get older :roll: 90 lbs weighs more than it did 20 years ago :-D :-D
I'm certain its the earths gravitational pull . It's gotten stronger! I used to float out of bed in the morning. Now I have to peel myself out of bed like it's got me sucked down tight . That's my theory anyway. Welcome Amanda. All of the advice you get here is free. Some of it is worth all of of that and more.
---Burl---
Not real sure you want to buy a beginner kit and expansion kit. I've heard they have a lot of stuff you don't need. But what do I know. I never even looked at one.
Welcome Amanda,
I am not sure but it looks like your town is somewhere near Atlanta. Contact Linda here http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/ and see if you can get with her group in Atlanta. That way you will be able to get some mentoring and help. Good Luck.
DennisB
Welcome aboard.
See if there is a local beekeepers club near you or you can get to a Metro Atlanta Beekeepers meeting.
Linda's site is excellent.
I also recommend reading Michael Bush's site. You can start here.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm)
Sincerely,
Brendhan
Beginner's and expansion kits often don't provide the equipment necessary to be successful, they also include a lot of unnessary things like Boardman feeders and queen excluders--they also don't give you enough of what you need.
Decide what you want--I use 8 frame mediums throughout due to medical limitations and it lets me move any frame to any other box in any hive I have. The ability to do that is something you'll only learn to appreciate with experience.
Go for screened bottom boards as they aid in ventilation and pest control.
Ask lots of questions, we here at the forum do not consider any question dumb or stupid. You'll always get a variety of answers to choose from and teased a bit in the process.
Order you bees now, as has been mentioned, they won't be shipped until April, May, or even June. Use the time between now and then to obtain a copy of a good book ie Beekeeping for Dummies and buy the basic equipment you thin you'll need. When it comes to wooden ware buy more than you think you'll need because you'll need it.
QuoteBeekeeping for Dummies
Great beginner book indeed. Also, if your passion and thirst for knowledge of bees increases, think about a subscription to a publication such as Bee Culture or American Bee Journal. I recently subscribed to Bee Culture and highly recommend it.
Thanks everyone for your advice. This is a list of everything included in the beginner kit:
2 Hive Bodies
20 Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames, deep
2 Supers, medium
20 Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames, medium
Bottom Board
Entrance Reducer
BeeMax Polystryrene Telescope Cover
Inner Cover
Polystyrene Hive Top Feeder
Varroa Screen/Monitoring Tray
Hard Plastic Helmet
Round Tie-down Veil
Stainless Steel Smoker with Heat Shield
10" Hive Tool
Beginning Beekeeping Book
Ventilated Leather Gloves
and this is a list for the expansion kit:
2 Brood Chambers
2 Medium Supers
20 Deep Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames
20 Medium Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames
Inner Cover
Polystyrene Telescope Cover - better insulation against temperature extremes
Reversible Bottom Board with Entrance Reducer
Does this include stuff that I won't need, and are things missing that I will need?
I would personally recoment using only medium boxed and framed and dump the pierco and go with wax foundation or foundationless with started strips.
You'll want a better book, at least, such as The Backyard Beekeeper and/or Beekeeping for Dummies (or both). I would suggest getting slatted racks, too.
As far as the rest of the equipment, there's nothing really extraneous there, although you probably won't need the 4 medium supers until your second year. The expansion kit doesn't come with the varroa screen, or the feeder.
Hi amanda i'm new to beekeeping like you
I've just ordered ,
4 x Deep Hive bodies + Wooden Frames
2 x Screened bottom boards
30 Sheets of SC Foundation
1 x Hive tool
1 x Smoker
1 x Smoker Fuel
1 x Gloves
I've decided to make my own covers. I also already had a Vail
I looked at the price off those starter kits and some of them seem expensive for what they are. You don't really need the honey suppers to start with ( So I'm told) as your bee's probably wont produce allot of honey till later in the season or even next year.
I decided i would buy this now and if i need it i'll buy the other bits later once the bee's get here.
Good luck
Stephen
>Does this include stuff that I won't need, and are things missing that I will need?
Yes.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnewbees.htm
If it was me:
>2 Hive Bodies
I would buy eight frame mediums instead of the ten frame deeps because they are lighter:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#lighterboxes
And because I want all the same sized boxes:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize
>20 Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames, deep
I don't want deep (see above) and I don't want the oversized cell size:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm
>2 Supers, medium
I prefer the eight frame boxes. (weight).
>20 Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames, medium
Cell size again.
>Bottom Board
I prefer the screened bottom board for better ventilation and some help with monitoring the mites. And, of course, I need an eight frame one.
>Entrance Reducer
Any old block of wood works for this.
>BeeMax Polystryrene Telescope Cover
I have a couple, but they don't fit my eight frame boxes and they are not as sturdy as the wood.
>Inner Cover
I use top entrances with no inner cover, but it's a handy piece of equipment to have around. Of course I want an eight frame one...
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#topentrance
http://www.bushfarms.com/beestopentrance.htm
>Polystyrene Hive Top Feeder
I've gone to feeding dry sugar.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#drysugar
But it's an ok feeder.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#miller
>Varroa Screen/Monitoring Tray
Then why the solid bottom board?
>Hard Plastic Helmet
Round Tie-down Veil
I much prefer the English hood style. They fold up nicer and you don't need a helmet.
>Stainless Steel Smoker with Heat Shield
The large one is better than the small one that comes with the kits. A large one is easier to light and easier to keep lit.
>10" Hive Tool
I prefer the Italian hive tool:
http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?pcode=591
I gave all my regular ones away.
>Beginning Beekeeping Book
There are a lot of good books out there. I haven't read theirs.
>Ventilated Leather Gloves
I wear regular gloves tucked into the elastic on the Jaket with a zip on English veil that I wear most of the time:
http://www.beeworks.com/beekeepersuits.html
>and this is a list for the expansion kit:
>2 Brood Chambers
More ten frame deeps and I want eight frame mediums.
>2 Medium Supers
More ten frame mediums and I want eight frame mediums.
>20 Deep Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames
More deep frames when I want medium and large cell (intermediate actually) when I want small.
>20 Medium Pierco Plastic Waxed Frames
More intermediate sized cell when I want small cell.
>Inner Cover
Ten frame again, and necessary.
>Polystyrene Telescope Cover - better insulation against temperature extremes
A small piece of Styrofoam on top of the lid would serve as well.
>Reversible Bottom Board with Entrance Reducer
I generally use the screened bottom boards. But you could convert this one to a feeder:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmisc.htm#smithbottomboardfeeder
No. There is NOTHING in that kit that I would buy. Sorry.
My avdice as a fellow beeginner is to find someone local and buy everything used,except for maybe the suit and hat. You will save hundreds.
Thanks everyone for your help. I've decided I need to do some more shopping around. What do you think of buying new hives on ebay? I found a place there called Long Lane Honey Bee Farms. All of there stuff is 10 frame, but I'm not really concerned with the weight. My dad is going to do the heavy lifting for me, and I might be able to get my brother to help(if he likes the honey;))
I've bought all my stuff from either Dadant... or Mann Lake
Its good service and i've been very happy with the quality of equipment
Amanda, looks like a few items there you don't need, but I can't make out everything just by the picture. Check out Michael Bush's site, www.bushfarms.com and scroll the page to where it says beginners, click on that for some really good advice. I would suggest as M.B. points out that you go with all mediums. I recommend a jacket with zippered veil from Dadant, I think it goes for around $40.00, a great investment. Buy a size or two larger than you think, the extra room is nice. I wear a baseball cap and long pants with the jacket and veil setup. Most beginner kits just have things that you won't use. Good luck, and welcome to the world of beekeeping!
Sincerely, JP
hi amanda
the advice to start with all mediums is real good advice. it is not just a weight issue but will also standardize your operation and eliminate confusion. dad and brother are there for you but why add a burden when you can avoid it going in to your hobby. there will likely be times when dad and brother are tied up with other things. full medium supers are a handful. full deep supers are HEA-VY. most things i've seen on ebay are NOT a deal when you factor in the shipping. buy from a reputable dealer and you'll be happier in the long run even if you don't know you are because everything is working together as it should. frames should all be from the same source because the dimensions are slightly different from different suppliers. read as much as you can and figure out what you really need and what you don't. a hive tool with a frame lifting hook is imo a must have. it's good to see young folks interested in beekeeping.
Do meduims work just as well for brood chambers as deeps? If the deeps aren't better for the bees, then why do most places use deeps for starter kits? I've told my dad that smaller ones are lighter, but he says not to bother because he doesn't mind lifting them for me. If the medium ones work just as well, then we will probably get those. Also, some sites, like Mann Lake, don't mention small cell foundation. If it doesn't specifically say small cell, do you assume it isn't small cell?
Quote from: Amanda on January 12, 2008, 04:14:16 PM
Do meduims work just as well for brood chambers as deeps? If the deeps aren't better for the bees, then why do most places use deeps for starter kits? I've told my dad that smaller ones are lighter, but he says not to bother because he doesn't mind lifting them for me. If the medium ones work just as well, then we will probably get those. Also, some sites, like Mann Lake, don't mention small cell foundation. If it doesn't specifically say small cell, do you assume it isn't small cell?
The depth of the box makes no difference for brood.
The reason deeps are used is because it is the accepted standard. Kinda like a brand of peanut butter you enjoy. There are other peanut butters but you still can make a peanut butter and jelly sandwidch with another brand.
I use mediums for brood and honey.
Michael has a wonderful quote on his page he got from someone else. Friends don't let friends lift deeps.
A fully loaded deep can weigh 90+ lbs. Having to lift those on regular basis can be back breaking work.
Sincerely,
Brendhan
Most people stress mediums because they are lighter. And going all mediums because there are times you will want to put certain frames into certain boxes but you can't because of the difference in sizes. I use all deeps for everything. No I don't lift the heavy things one frame at a time is really light.
So basically it is go with what you want. But it is really best to have all the same boxes. What hasn't been mention I don't think is it take three mediums to make two deeps. So the draw back is you need more boxes and more frames for the same thing.
>Do meduims work just as well for brood chambers as deeps? If the deeps aren't better for the bees, then why do most places use deeps for starter kits?
It has been the tradition in beekeeping. Feed bags back when they started that tradition weighed 100 lbs. Now they weigh 50 lbs. Beekeeping just hasn't kept up. But actually Brushy Mt has beginners kits with eight frame mediums in them. But since there is seldom anything I want in a beginners kit, I wouldn't buy one.
> I've told my dad that smaller ones are lighter, but he says not to bother because he doesn't mind lifting them for me.
Try picking up two 50 lb boxes of nails at the same time. Now set them GENTLY on the ground. That's sort of what it's like. Now try lifting them when they are stuck to two more 50 lb boxes of nails...
> If the medium ones work just as well, then we will probably get those. Also, some sites, like Mann Lake, don't mention small cell foundation. If it doesn't specifically say small cell, do you assume it isn't small cell?
If it doesn't say, you don't know, unless someone has bothered to measure it already:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm#cellsizes
Amanda, contrary to what you have heard I wouldn't start out with small cell foundation being new to beekeeping, unless you get regressed bee's they will draw out ugly comb and that's no way to start out in something new, after you get use to working your bee's and learn what is going on and know what to expect when regressing bee's then go to small cell, people can tell you all kinds of stuff and right now being new to beekeeping you can not understand just yet what they mean, my opinion is to start out normal and learn all you can then experiment with other things like small cell, 8 or 10 frame equipment and deeps or mediums, until you try it you will not know for yourself, everyone likes different things..... hope this helps
oh and a deep can weight 90 when full of honey but deeps are mainly for brood not honey, I never use a deep for a honey super (why would anyone do this), thats what mediums and shallows are for is honey ;)
Everyone told me not to do cut outs as my first way to get bees. I didn't listen. And all went well.
The way I see it is, if you plan to do small cell, or natural cell, beekeeping that is the way you should start out in stead of doing it one way then shifting to another way later.
They draw the PF120's just fine. I installed 40 packages on it this spring with no problems. It's 4.95mm.
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/search_results.asp?txtsearchParamTxt=PF+120&txtsearchParamType=ALL&txtsearchParamCat=ALL&txtsearchParamMan=ALL&txtsearchParamVen=ALL&txtDateAddedStart=&txtDateAddedEnd=&txtPriceStart=&txtPriceEnd=&txtFromSearch=fromSearch&iLevel=1&btnSearch.x=45&btnSearch.y=11
If you buy 180 or more you get them for less than $1 each.
Mann Lake has 8 frame equipment, they just don't always advertise it in their catalogs.
Bushy Mtn, Mann Lake, and others should allow you to stimpulate all medium boxes and frames in the beginners kit. Still the kits have a lot of unnessary things in them.
Believe me, even your Dad will thiank you for going all meium after he's had to lift a few boxes full of bees and honey. Medium supers full of honey can get very heavy by the end of the day.
When I started last April I bought the delux kit from Mann Lake. As time went on, I ended up not using half of it. Got rid of the solid bottom board after I discovered screened bottom boards when I purchased a complete (unassembeled) double medium hive from Brushy Mountain.
Like Understudy mentioned, it's all pretty much a user preference. The bees dont seem to care if they're in a medium super, deep super, wall of a house, cardboard box, or a hollow log.
I still use deeps, but I'm still in my 20's and don't mind the heavy work.
My suggestion is to buy all wooden hives (none of that styerfoam stuff), get the complete unassembeled hives from brushy mountain (comes with a nice screened bottom board). Stay away from plastic foundation and get wired wax (bees like it better). Buy a good bee suit with zippered vale, gloves, a good smoker like the smoke cloud from Walter T. Kelly (the cheap one that came with my Mann Lake kit broke after 3 months), enterance feeder and mason jar, and hive tool. Your local Home Depot always has mix-match paint that they sell really cheap to paint your hives with, sometimes really fun colors too!!! That's all you really need to get started.
To echo everyone else, definately check out Michael Bush's website and study it!!! Great info!!! Also when you install your bees, try the method that the guy (Beemaster John) who made this website came up with by removing the screen instead of pinging them out the small feeder can hole. He has instructions and a video on the main page (www.beemaster.com).
Bee Culture magazine is awesome for beginners and not as technical as American Bee Journal can be.
ABC's and XYZ's of Bee Culture is a great reference encyclopedia, but not a good read cover to cover.
Join a club and ask lots of questions here at the Beemaster Fourms! You'll make some great friends and have a blast!!!
Sean Kelly