Growing up we had 9 hives. I helped but never did all the work. Now, 25 years later, I want a couple of hives. All I read about are v. mites, t. mites, foulbrood, nosema, bears, skunks, etc.
Is it going to be worth my $500.00 investment for hives, bees, tools, etc. to have bees? I want to do it badly. We homeschool and this is a great way to learn about nature. We make our own bread and use honey in it. I can sell extra locally to hopefully break even on my hobby. However, I don't want to put in major money and then lose it all to some microscopic parasite or to some huge omnivore.
Opinions?
you can only evaluate the risk according to your loss tolerance. all of the things you mention are possible problems, however, with good hive management, most of those risks can be avoided or managed.
it is an educational hobby for your children. you have a use for the product. even if you fail at your first try and all your bees die, you do not have to make the initial investment all over again. you will only have to replace the bees. you can keep bees with a minimal investment in the beginning. if you expand later, you can think about things like extractors, etc.
the other thing about it is that beekeeping is very relaxing. i call my hives my outdoor fish tanks. i have spent hours just watching the bees do their thing. can't beat that! :-)
Absolutely!!!
I have 5 kids (between 2 and 11 yo) and they love to help out. Sure there are diseases and problems, but read through any hobby books, whether dogs, bees, tropical fish, cats, birds, and they all have a big section on all the things that can go wrong and how to deal with them.
The only downside is that it has been so consuming...all I think about anymore is bees. How're the bees doing over the winter? When will the maples be blooming? How much honey do they have now? When will I be able to extract the honey? etc etc.
The kids love the bees, and I've been to their school and done presentations with an observation hive. They beg for honey everytime they see the honeybear. I've actually learned an incredible amount about the Creation...plants, flowers, other bugs, trees, etc, and so have the kids.
for $500 you should be able to get 2 hives, equipment, and some extra veils for the kids. Sure there is risk involved and you could lose some hives, but with enough knowledge you can manage that...it is just like getting a puppy..it could get kennel cough, hip dysplasia, twisted bowels, heart worms, it could eat some plastic and die, etc etc.
Rick
The answer? It depends on what you want to harvest.
If you are out for honey, it's expensive at first. I built a lot of my equipment, used a smoker and veil (literally) from the world war II era, and got started for just under $108 (now I'm up far closer to your $500 than I'd like to admit). If you buy (and that's not a bad idea) it can be costly. So "is it worth it" comes down to rewards.
The question is - what is it you are harvesting? If it's honey, you can often get it cheaper at a bulk rate from a beekeeper near you. There's more to be had from the hive than honey though. Pollen is expensive to start collecting but quickly recoups the cost if you have a market for it. Propolis is the same. Wax is pretty expensive, so I hold on to mine and use it for starter strips, but it can contribute to the well rounded income too. For me though, none of the above are the real reason I keep bees. It's not for honey (though I love it, and sure hope to get some each year). Not for pollen, or propolis, or queens, though all of these are good too. Me? I'm harvesting wonder, and every year it's a bumper crop.
You'll get a dozen different opinions. Some financial. Some ecological. Some analytical, some emotional. Decide what you want to harvest and you will know if it's worth it to you.
Absolutely,
The gains far out weigh the loses, and I am learning to cut the latter. I agree its a great way to demonstate a bit of nature with children and others. Aside from the knowledge gained it provides our family with a product we believe is benificial to our health. My wife is a soap and candle maker, which by the way is a really good match for a beekeeper. I get excited about building my own wooden ware. It gives me a break from my day to day routine and provides me with a bit of satisfaction in the woodshop. So for me its not the money, its the experience.
David
Go for it. :-D Depending on your learning curve and management practices, you can keep the parasites and diseases in check, but you must be committed to stay on top. :-D
I don't worry about keeping up with them but I would like to be as poison free as I can be. Can you still keep bees without using poison?
define poison.
there is an organic beekeeping section here. you can probably get some info.
some people believe that if they use anything in their hive it is bad. others use natural substances as much as they can. still others, treat with chemicals and other medications. at least when you do your own honey, you know what has gone into treatment.
If you are handy with powertools. You can save yourself a ton of money. You can either get the plans on here or you can buy one hive and copy it. Then if you need more you still have the layout to add on.Micheal Bushes site should help with the cemical free part of it.
Quote from: watercarving on January 24, 2008, 08:19:38 PM
I don't worry about keeping up with them but I would like to be as poison free as I can be. Can you still keep bees without using poison?
That is where it comes down to knowledge and objectives. Technically water and alcohol can be poisons, but people consume those daily. There are "hard" (man-made chemicals, fluvinate, coumaphos) and "soft" treatments (concentrated naturally occurring substances, oxalates,formic acid, oils), both of which can kill you, but the "soft" treatments are naturally occuring substances.
I try to go as "poison-free" as possible, but use "soft" treatments because I'd rather not lose my investments. People on these forums use everything from hard treatments to nothing, some successful, some not so. If you buy honey from the store, then that honey most likely came from hives that were treated with hard and soft treatments.
As a $$ investment it will take a while and a lot of work to turn a profit. I'd say it is probably not worth it on a hobby basis.
If you like to experiment and enjoy nature and doing things yourself and including the children and pouring your own honey on your homemade bread then you won't be disappointed. I too made much of my own equipment, but still have more than $500 invested, but have made more than that, but with a lot of work.
But the bottom line is...if this is something that you really want to do both emotionally and financially it can and will be rewarding, even with the disappointments that you will suffer along the way.
Rick
Quote from: watercarving on January 24, 2008, 04:19:25 PM
Is it going to be worth my $500.00 investment for hives, bees, tools, etc. to have bees? We homeschool and this is a great way to learn about nature.
If you homeschool then absolutely its worth $500.00 regardless the outcome of the bees. I have paid 4 times this much for 1 college class. $500.00 is a small amount of money when it comes to education.
Then just think. You will get your own honey instead of buying it. That is another complete different subject for extracting the honey for your children. What a valuable learning tool.
Watercarving. New bee. I see you have made 6 posts by looking at your profile. I don't think that I have welcomed you to our forum. You are already asking questions and look at the mighty answers you have been receiving. Anyways, welcome to our forum. You are going to love to spend time here, learning and listening and yes.......go for the bees. You home school your children, you very obviously have a great way looking at life, good for you!!! Yes....spend the money and get the bees for your family and you. You will soon become an addict, as will your children.
There is nothing more satisfying on this earth than to watch the bees, take from them what they will give to you (and that can also mean a few stings that you take, hee, hee, along with the wonderful by-products of the hive). I can honestly tell you, that I don't believe for one minute that you will ever regret any money spent on your bees. Every penny will have been worth its weight in gold in the long run. The pleasure that you and your family will gain from these little beauties of Mother Nature that we are privileged to be a part of, money cannot buy.
Welcome to the world of honeybee addicts. We are one. Have a beautiful and wonderful day. Remember to ask any question that your heart desires, all questions are worthy of answers, no matter how simple or how intricate. Cindi
You will be in the fiscal "red for a year or two. The equipment lasts years and your costs will stabilize if you have self control. Eventually you will get ahead. In the inbetween, you will be rewarded w/ too many lessons to count. All the above responses are from people just like you who are 'hooked" on additional benefits of beekeeping.
Deep Super w/ frames and foundation-$35
Smoker- $28
Veil-$20
Bees-$75
Seeing a swarm hived, a queen be superceded, lay an egg, bee emerge from cell, taste of your first honey, a childs look when they have their first tatse!-priceless
Where can I get a super, frames and foundation for $35? I must be looking in the wrong places.
It IS worth it. There is an ancient, somewhat spiritual element to small scale beekeeping that I cannot fully discribe. Large operations have other pressures and concerns which must overshadow the peacefull side of a few hives along a creek in back of the house.
Just ONE soft coated wheaten terrier, which dog my wife HAD to have, which dog I do love, has as of the last tally cost me $2,100 and we are still months away from a first litter. Name your addiction, my friend. Welcome to the buzz!
Quote from: watercarving on January 25, 2008, 12:53:27 PM
Where can I get a super, frames and foundation for $35? I must be looking in the wrong places.
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_37&products_id=37
That is a basic kid, includes 1 hive body, covers, and bottom board, thus the $57.
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22_28&products_id=781
Assembled and painted it is $46, I'm sure you can get the components cheaper and assemble.
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_37&products_id=64
$8.95
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_38&products_id=85
$8.00
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=23_39&products_id=91
$8.60
+ shipping
Or make it yourself: http://www.beesource.com/plans/index.htm :-D
Rick
Just built two top bar hives based on beesource plans for about $50. :)
Quote from: shawnwri on January 25, 2008, 02:32:13 PM
Just built two top bar hives based on beesource plans for about $50. :)
Also check out this site:
http://www.§¤«£¿æ.com/forum/index.php
Am highly considering going top bar hive. We like a la natural and that seems the way to go.
Was just offered two hives with supers, frames, and foundation for $100.00 w/o bees. Not sure what to do now. Still tempted to do TBH.
>Just built two top bar hives based on beesource plans for about $50.
Which plans? From here: http://www.beesource.com/eob/althive/index.htm ?
Barry's? Dennis's? Maybe you could narrow it down.
>Not sure what to do now. Still tempted to do TBH.
Bees will thrive in either. What do YOU want to do?
Honestly, I'm much more excited about the TBH. It just looks right. Not sure why.
My only concern is that there are no TBH folks around here (north Georgia) that I know of. But, I'm not afraid to blaze a trail either.
Is the §¤«£¿æ.com book '§¤«£¿æ' worth the $12.00 download?
Thanks.
Quote from: watercarving on January 25, 2008, 12:53:27 PM
Where can I get a super, frames and foundation for $35? I must be looking in the wrong places.
If you buy the stuff piecemeal you can get better price this is going rate any how- look towards the botom of the page RDY-B tell them you want pf100 or pf 120 deep or meadum and you to can see if smallcell works for you -at minumum start up cost http://www.mannlakeltd.com/catalog/page5.html
>Is the §¤«£¿æ.com book '§¤«£¿æ' worth the $12.00 download?
I haven't read it, so I can't say. It's not hard to build or run a top bar hive. No harder than any other hive, just a couple of adjustments, like treating the combs more carefully and expanding the brood nest horizontally to keep them from swarming.
watercarving, where in north GA? I'm in the Chattanooga, TN area. I have one TBH with Russian bees doing well. I plan on adding more TBH's of differant designs as well as a combo hive this year.
I'm about 40 minutes east of Dalton. I can be in Chatt. in about 1.5 hours.
What dimensions have you built your hives to? Why different designs instead of standardizing so frame exchange is easier?
I assume you are close to Blue Ridge - there are lots of good beekeepers in North Georgia. You might consider attending the Young Harris (http://www.ent.uga.edu/bees/Meetings/workshops.htm)Beekeeping Institute in May - I went last year and learned a lot.
Bill Owens (http://www.owensapiaries.net/) who is a big part of that program and usually presents, has a ton of hives and doesn't use poison. There are some traditional beekeepers who present there, but I learned a lot and I don't use poison of any kind in my hives and while I am not a totally organic beekeeper (I use powdered sugar shakes to address the mite problems) I found the material very helpful.
Bob Binnie who is the president of the GA Beekeepers Association (http://www.gabeekeeping.com/) lives in Lakemont and is a commercial beekeeper, but a wise one.
Even if your hives are TBH, and others are using boxes, the basic bee knowledge is the same.
Linda T in Atlanta
Quote from: Michael Bush on January 26, 2008, 03:01:51 PM
>Just built two top bar hives based on beesource plans for about $50.
Which plans? From here: http://www.beesource.com/eob/althive/index.htm ?
Barry's? Dennis's? Maybe you could narrow it down.
Dennis's, more or less. Get these to work and I will play around and modify to suit my desires with the next ones.