Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: hellbenthoneybee on March 27, 2008, 04:28:36 PM

Title: Hive Shape
Post by: hellbenthoneybee on March 27, 2008, 04:28:36 PM
What is the differance between the square shaped hives and the dome shaped ones.  Where can you get the dome ones?
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: MrILoveTheAnts on March 27, 2008, 04:32:00 PM
The dome hive I believe is just a wicker basket and pretty hard to harvest from without destroying the hive.
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: Robo on March 27, 2008, 04:39:10 PM
Skeps (dome shape) are illegal is most, if not all, states.  Hives must have removable frames for inspection.
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: hellbenthoneybee on March 27, 2008, 04:43:05 PM
The dome ones seem to be the hive of illustration what is the history on that, anyone know?
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: DennisB on March 27, 2008, 04:49:07 PM
I think that you see most illustrations showing them is because they are the "romantic" ideal home for bees. Boxes just  aren't as visual as the skep with some bees floating in the air around it. They have been around in some form or another for a few thousand years. There was a posting sometime last fall of the excavations in the mideast (I think Israel) of a an apiary that was a couple of thousand years old. They also used ceramic domes and other shapes. Hope this helps understand a bit.

DennisB
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: Ericnwicklow on March 27, 2008, 05:15:07 PM
Over here in ireland we still see the occasional Skep at some apiarys,these are made from straw though not wicker .
The skep is harvested in the autumn but usually the queen and bees would be lost unless a bit of work was done to hive them before the skep was removed ,when removing the comb brood eggs and honey are all taken at the same time and there is no way of saving the brood and eggs as far as i understand,but the skep is good to look at i must agree if not practical.for looking after.
Very useful for collecting swarms though.

 
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: hellbenthoneybee on March 27, 2008, 05:22:36 PM
Quote from: Ericnwicklow on March 27, 2008, 05:15:07 PM
Over here in ireland we still see the occasional Skep at some apiarys,these are made from straw though not wicker .
The skep is harvested in the autumn but usually the queen and bees would be lost unless a bit of work was done to hive them before the skep was removed ,when removing the comb brood eggs and honey are all taken at the same time and there is no way of saving the brood and eggs as far as i understand,but the skep is good to look at i must agree if not practical.for looking after.
Very useful for collecting swarms though.

 
Sad that they are not more practical. I do enjoy the shape more than the box, but that is the american way...  function without form.. :(
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: sc-bee on March 27, 2008, 05:39:29 PM
I'm going out on a limb so to speak!!!! But I belive what I was told is the skep is illegal because of not being able to treat properly and the likelyhood of spread of disesase due to not treating because of difficulty of inspection of the skep.
Of course ideas of treatment are now turning around a almost complete 180 degrees!!!

The skep is however a more Romantic look  :-*. Especially for the ladies!!!

Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: wtiger on March 27, 2008, 06:16:15 PM
I know if it is a trade off as it is in this case I'd take function over form any day.  I prefer things that work as intended with the least amount of effort.  If you really want form in a hive you can get pretty creative with paint if you like.  :)
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: reinbeau on March 27, 2008, 10:39:06 PM
Skeps can't hold removable frames, that's why they're illegal.  They aren't 'romantic', they were what was used before the hive we all are familiar with was invented - among other shapes.  You can still buy them, many keep them in their herb gardens, not for hives, but for decoration.
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: KONASDAD on March 27, 2008, 10:52:46 PM
you also had to destroy the hive when harvesting. They are illegal here b/c of what reinbeo said. No way to inspect a hive w/o movabvle frames. Also, its not the least bit manipulable. You would be almost impossible to requeen(release her in front and hope for best), use IPM(sugar shakes for ex.) medicate, inspect the brood area(no fun w/ that one!) No landing board to stare at for endless hours. No washboarding.(my favorite). Sometimes things go by the way side for a reason.
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: CBEE on March 28, 2008, 09:40:01 AM
Along with some of the other reasons mentioned I have also read one other reason was the fire hazzard due to being made of straw. Apparently a hot smoker and straw don't mix very well.
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: JP on March 28, 2008, 09:48:09 AM
Quote from: sc-bee on March 27, 2008, 05:39:29 PM
I'm going out on a limb so to speak!!!! But I belive what I was told is the skep is illegal because of not being able to treat properly and the likelyhood of spread of disesase due to not treating because of difficulty of inspection of the skep.
Of course ideas of treatment are now turning around a almost complete 180 degrees!!!

The skep is however a more Romantic look  :-*. Especially for the ladies!!!



Rob stated this 5 posts up.

...JP
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: JP on March 28, 2008, 09:55:57 AM
Quote from: hellbenthoneybee on March 27, 2008, 05:22:36 PM
Quote from: Ericnwicklow on March 27, 2008, 05:15:07 PM
Over here in ireland we still see the occasional Skep at some apiarys,these are made from straw though not wicker .
The skep is harvested in the autumn but usually the queen and bees would be lost unless a bit of work was done to hive them before the skep was removed ,when removing the comb brood eggs and honey are all taken at the same time and there is no way of saving the brood and eggs as far as i understand,but the skep is good to look at i must agree if not practical.for looking after.
Very useful for collecting swarms though.

 
Sad that they are not more practical. I do enjoy the shape more than the box, but that is the american way...  function without form.. :(

I'm American and I function just fine, as for as form, well maybe I could lose a few lbs, but I'm at the age where I don't care if other people think I have a few extra lbs on me, so nope, not changing that. ;)

Hellbent/Heavensent, if you want to keep a skep hive or two and you don't have heavy regulations where you are, you could keep them and enjoy them, with the idea that you will  have swarms when they get overcrowded, and if you want to harvest honey you will have to open them and do a cut-out. You don't have to kill the bees in the process, you could transfer them to another skep or box, and then move them after your harvest. If you can dismantle the skep and reassemble it it can be used again.

...JP
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: indypartridge on March 28, 2008, 11:05:04 AM
Quote from: hellbenthoneybee
I do enjoy the shape more than the box, but that is the american way...  function without form.. :( 
But as wtiger pointed out:
QuoteIf you really want form in a hive you can get pretty creative with paint if you like.

For example, look at these:
http://s76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/Maine_Beekeeper/
http://www.brendansbees.com/images/Yard1_060508.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/hives2.jpg

And, if you want "looks", consider a copper-topped garden hive:
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/catalog/page15.html
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: johnnybigfish on March 28, 2008, 11:32:36 PM
Yeh, I really like the "Copper tops"!
But I dont like the price!

your friend,
john
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: hellbenthoneybee on March 29, 2008, 03:37:44 PM
The copper is nice, I bet you could make some cool copper fittings yourself for less loot!  Remember to wear gloves when cuting metal!
 
Oh, JP, Arcitecture only... ;) 
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: JP on March 29, 2008, 05:15:37 PM
Quote from: hellbenthoneybee on March 29, 2008, 03:37:44 PM
The copper is nice, I bet you could make some cool copper fittings yourself for less loot!  Remember to wear gloves when cuting metal!
 
Oh, JP, Arcitecture only... ;) 

Hellbent/Heavensent, you don't want functionality?

...JP
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: hellbenthoneybee on March 29, 2008, 05:37:33 PM
Of course I want functionality!!!    What kind of a girl do you think I am?
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: JP on March 29, 2008, 06:05:20 PM
Quote from: hellbenthoneybee on March 29, 2008, 05:37:33 PM
Of course I want functionality!!!    What kind of a girl do you think I am?

Ok, so are you getting a skep or two?


...JP
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: qa33010 on March 29, 2008, 06:14:36 PM
    I'm sure someone somewhere has designed or is designing a removeable frame skep.  Or if nothing else wrap a skep shape around a Langstroth box.  Even if this may cause pest problems with the dead space between skep and hive body.  Also design an entrance from box to outside without allowing access to the dead space.  Maybe even make the top part of the lang top so it can be supered.  That would look a little strange.  Hhhmmmmm :-\
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: Michael Bush on March 29, 2008, 06:55:59 PM
If you like the basket shape that much and want a movable comb hive, the Greek top bar hives were in a basket.  You just do it like a top bar hive except each bar is a little shorter as you go across.
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: hellbenthoneybee on March 29, 2008, 07:38:18 PM
I'm sure I will end up with the box hives, I just wanted to know the difference.  I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I do anything, last thing I want is to cause harm to some bees. I ejoyed the fancy hive box photos that got posted, thanks! 
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: JP on March 29, 2008, 11:25:04 PM
Quote from: hellbenthoneybee on March 29, 2008, 07:38:18 PM
I'm sure I will end up with the box hives, I just wanted to know the difference.  I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I do anything, last thing I want is to cause harm to some bees. I ejoyed the fancy hive box photos that got posted, thanks! 

Hellbent/Heavensent, you know that you will squish some bees as a beekeeper right? Sorry to burst your bubble. They will go to bee heaven though. ;)


...JP
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: hellbenthoneybee on April 01, 2008, 04:26:24 PM
I'm sure there will be some casualties...  I would hate to lose a whole hive though.  Bee heaven sound like a nice place... anything like the land of milk and honey?
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: Brian D. Bray on April 03, 2008, 12:32:24 AM
When it comes to form I am 4F and 4W, that is: Fat, Funny, Fearless, and Fifty-something, and Wierd, Wild, Wacky, and Wonderful.  On the other hand my wife calls me 3D; Dumb, Dumber, and Dumbo (size).
Title: Re: Hive Shape
Post by: jaypee on April 03, 2008, 05:45:49 AM
If my history is correct, the Greeks were the first to use top bar hives. They used straight lengths of wood or branches to let them harvest the honey without destroying the brood nest. These were upside down to what we think of because the 'base' was on top.

There were also methods of supering skeps, with a small second story skep that fitted over the top of the large skep.

There is a digital book 'somewhere' on line which traces the history of beekeeping, with pages and pages of hive evolution. The one which made the strongest impression on me was an oversized 'book', each page was a frame and they  rotated on a central hub.