Beemaster's International Beekeeping Forum

BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: T.Smith on April 07, 2008, 11:03:41 PM

Title: small hive beetles
Post by: T.Smith on April 07, 2008, 11:03:41 PM
Hello, I am in north Louisiana and having problems with hive beetles. You can have a strong colony one day and boxes of larvae and beetles a week later. I read in this months bee culture about formic acid and was wondering if any one has had any luck with it. I see they sell it at mann lake.  Any suggestions      Thanks Tracy
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Apis629 on April 08, 2008, 02:02:40 AM
Your only really effective defense against small hive beetles would be to keep the colonies well populated and strong.  It's all about having enough workers on the comb to actively remove any eggs deposited by the beetles. You could also consider trying one of the beetle traps which uses lime or vegetable oil as a method of controlling and monitoring the beetle populations in the hives.  Hive beetles can fly and travel for miles around, killing them once they're at the hive would be difficult, and really won't do much if more are on their way. 
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 08, 2008, 08:01:52 AM
Ditto on the strong hives.  When I opened mine up this spring, both hives were full of SHB who apparently lived through the winter in my colonies, but now there are no SHB in either hive - now, I feel quite sure they will show up as their numbers increase this summer even with my strong hives, but I've been shocked that there are none right now.

I've just bought the new vegetable oil trap from Australia (https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=933) to see how it works but my last year's approach of the Sonny-Mel trap will be in use when they show back up as well.  Last year I used both the vinegar trap hooked into a frame as well as the Sonny-Mel trap and still saw SHB every time I opened the hive, but I'm sure the two traps diminished the numbers.  This year three kinds will be even better!

Linda T fighting the SHB one day at a time in Atlanta
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Ross on April 08, 2008, 11:26:07 AM
The other defenses are full sunshine and hard soil.  Staying out away from pine trees has anecdotally been recommended as well.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Wes Sapp on April 09, 2008, 12:16:11 AM
I struggled with the SHB for 2 years using veg. oil traps, West traps and others. The best defense I've found is GardStar it's a concentrate you mix and drench the ground with a sprinkler can that breaks the reproductive cycle of SHB.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: TwT on April 09, 2008, 06:21:28 AM
me and a few others have been talking about something for about a year now, now we have no facts or stuff like that but we have about come to a conclusion from observations that just like some bee's being mite resistant, that some hives of bee's can handle loads of SHB's and not be bothered while other full hives will collapse, I mean full healthy hives just get beat out by SHB's, and then some hives never have more than 2-3 SHB's at any time. this is just we have observed so no studies done, it could very well be like we are thinking, maybe one day some smart people will approve or disprove this but that is just something I thought I would mention, I have beetles in my hives but never had a problem with them, even starter nuc's never had any problems.........   
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Understudy on April 09, 2008, 08:17:32 AM
Take a piece of regular cardboard 4"x4". Cover the flat side with duct tape. Fill the waffle grooves with boric acid about halfway. Staple the piece to the bottom board. If you use screened bottom boards staple it to the the top.  The duct tape prevents the bees from chewing the cardboard. The SHB like the waffles in the cardboard. They hide in them get coated with boric acid and slowly die.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 09, 2008, 10:25:46 AM
I don't plan to ever put poison in the hive, although maybe vinegar is......, but I sure find the challenge of the SHB fun to try to meet and overcome!!!

Linda T in Atlanta
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Understudy on April 09, 2008, 01:49:46 PM
Boric acid(20 Mule team Borax) is basically soap(okay, it's a mineral,sassolite). It isn't a chemical poison. It works great for things like beetles and roaches. Without having to have any nasty residues like some of the pesticides.

You can also put a West Beetle trap on the bottom the hive. This is basically a tray with a cover with very small openings in the cover. You fill the tray with olive oil or food grade mineral oil and the beetles and the larvae fall into it and die. The openings are to small for the bees.

The idea behind any of these is not expose the bees to them, just the beetles.

Sincerely,
Brendhan
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Apis629 on April 09, 2008, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Ross on April 08, 2008, 11:26:07 AM
The other defenses are full sunshine and hard soil.  Staying out away from pine trees has anecdotally been recommended as well.
I've actually heard great things about hives placed in sandy areas. Of course, we have plenty of that in Florida.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 09, 2008, 11:18:54 PM
I bought several of those new Australian SHB traps from Dadant and the instructions say to cover the trap with a vinyl mat??????

What in the world do they mean?  Has anyone used one of small hive beetle traps (https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=933)? 

Linda T in Atlanta wondering about vinyl mats
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Understudy on April 09, 2008, 11:33:09 PM
Quote from: tillie on April 09, 2008, 11:18:54 PM
I bought several of those new Australian SHB traps from Dadant and the instructions say to cover the trap with a vinyl mat??????

What in the world do they mean?  Has anyone used one of small hive beetle traps (https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=933)? 

Linda T in Atlanta wondering about vinyl mats

AJ's Beetle Eater. Pick up the vinyl from a carpet place. It is used to prevent the bees from propolising the trap.

Sincerely,
Brendhan



I used some in the demo for my class. They are nice but I am just not into them yet.

Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: durkie on April 10, 2008, 03:03:07 PM
i just leave the cover on the screened bottom board and then pour diatomaceous earth on it before sliding it in. we started that about 2 months ago, and found about 30 dead beetles on it within 3 days. we've since seen one on the board, and zero in the hive, so something tells me that the beetles weren't just getting smart and avoiding the board.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: pdmattox on April 10, 2008, 07:14:07 PM
I did not know about the mat thing. Just put mine in monday and will recheck this weekend to see what the verdict is.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 10, 2008, 10:49:57 PM
If you search AJ's Beetle Eater on Google, you'll find his web page and on it he also says to put a vinyl mat over the trap -

Linda T in Atlanta who hasn't used my AJs traps yet (no observed SHB to date!!!!!!!)
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Understudy on April 10, 2008, 11:29:56 PM
Quote from: tillie on April 10, 2008, 10:49:57 PM
If you search AJ's Beetle Eater on Google, you'll find his web page and on it he also says to put a vinyl mat over the trap -

Linda T in Atlanta who hasn't used my AJs traps yet (no observed SHB to date!!!!!!!)
I can send you some if you want them. :)

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 11, 2008, 12:24:27 AM
No thanks - I'm sure they'll show up in a month or two - full force - I now have seven (7) hives OMG!  and I expect to be dealing with SHB in all of them, just not yet.

Linda T in Atlanta, a little overwhelmed with bees....when I signed up for the swarm catcher list somehow I didn't get that that meant I would take home the bees I caught.  HMMMMM
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Brian D. Bray on April 13, 2008, 01:02:16 AM
Quote from: tillie on April 11, 2008, 12:24:27 AM
No thanks - I'm sure they'll show up in a month or two - full force - I now have seven (7) hives OMG!  and I expect to be dealing with SHB in all of them, just not yet.

Linda T in Atlanta, a little overwhelmed with bees....when I signed up for the swarm catcher list somehow I didn't get that that meant I would take home the bees I caught.  HMMMMM

Those who make the most money with bees either sell the bees or sell their homes.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Mountaineerfan on April 20, 2008, 07:52:45 PM
Linda,
I put my beetle eaters in today.  I haven't seen any yet, but I'm doing it as a preventative measure, since I believe that the SHB is the reason my hives left....

Steve
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 20, 2008, 09:43:13 PM
Steve,

did you use the vinyl cover that they suggest in the directions?  And if so, what did you use for the vinyl cover?

Linda T in Atlanta
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Fannbee on April 20, 2008, 10:06:32 PM
Last week put a AJ beetle trap on a hive that I had beetles.  Found 27 dead beeltle in the trap this week.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Mountaineerfan on April 20, 2008, 10:50:52 PM
Quote from: tillie on April 20, 2008, 09:43:13 PM
Steve,

did you use the vinyl cover that they suggest in the directions?  And if so, what did you use for the vinyl cover?

Linda T in Atlanta

No, I didn't use the vinyl.  I have some linoleum in my building that I can use, but I want to see how the bees react to it first. 
Over on the Beesource forum, AJ himself said that to fill the eater, use a bulb syringe, and each one only needs 3mL of oil.  Since I have kids, I have LOTS of syringes for giving medicine, so I filled up one that held 10mL, and then filled the eaters after they were installed.
I also had a bee get under my veil and sting my right on the end of my nose.   @&*%!!&$%#^!!!
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 21, 2008, 12:20:43 AM
I posted on Beesource about this also - I don't get the vinyl idea.  Do you buy a square of vinyl and cut it into strips to cover the traps?  I wish the AJ Beetle Eater were shipped with the covering.  I'm also not too thrilled about filling it - no kids, no syringes, although the Target pharmacy gave me one for my lip balm - maybe I can talk her into another one!

Linda T in Atlanta
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: Understudy on April 21, 2008, 08:33:04 AM
I have been using the west end beetle traps in some of my hives recently. I have some of them with the cardboard and boric acid. The cardboard ones are nice but they work on hives that aren't infested. If the hive is infested they are not real effective.

The West  beetle traps are more effective for large scale issues. They also work on wax moth because if the larva is small enough the bees pull it out and it drops into the pan and doesn't get a second chance to climb back up. The problem with the West beetle traps is the hives must be perfectly level. If not the oil will pile up on one side and be higher than the grill this will kill bees. Getting the hive level can be a bit of a chore. Also the you ruin the ventilation if you place it on top of a screened bottom board.

The Permacomb has little "trays" in the ears where SHB like to hide. I am thinking of putting some mesh over those and filling those with oil or boric acid. I think that may be a cool thing to do with the Permacomb. Then I might not need the West beetle traps.



Sincerely,
Brendhan

Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: sc-bee on April 21, 2008, 11:21:33 PM
Vinyl Mat = Vinyl Floor Covering

I put one in without the mat and no luck. The Hood Trap is also very Hit and Miss!!! At least my experience with it.
Title: Re: small hive beetles
Post by: tillie on April 22, 2008, 09:47:51 PM
I posted on Beesource about this and AJ answered my query about what is a hive mat.  Apparently it is like an inner cover, only cut of vinyl or plastic.  Here's the link he gave me:
http://www.bindaree.com.au/hints/hint3_hive_mat.htm

If you look at this, it's just an inner cover made of plastic - which I can't think would be as good for ventilation in the hive as an inner cover.....so it sounds as though using the AJ's beetle eater would not require any more of a cover than our inner cover.

I asked AJ about that and I'll let you know what he says in his response.

Linda T in Atlanta