I am already thinking of next year. I want to add a few hives...I guess I am already addicted!
I want to start with packages next year instead of getting a nuc as I did this year. I really like my Carniolans, and considering all of this, does anyone have a source for small cell regressed Carniolan packages? I have done some searches, but haven't come up with anything satisfying regressed, Carniolan, package.
I will be building my own boxes a bit later this summer, and want to go foundationless with the new packages.
I appreciate any/all input.
--Steve
also, consider putting your name on the swarm call list. i have gotten some really nice bees this year. swarms go gang buster on comb building!
Thank you for the advice! How does one get on a swarm call list? Is this something done through the state, or coordinated by local beekeeper associations? I am a member of our local Association, but haven't noticed any info on swarm calls.
I would certainly be interested in collecting swarms....not quite ready/set up to do any cut-outs etc. yet.
--Steve
Don sells small cell nucs. Order early after he starts taking orders, he sells out.
http://www.geocities.com/fatbeeman/
I am a fan of foundationless frames because it motivates people to rotate out old combs.
I also see that it gives bees and opportunity to build the combs they feel they need.
I use a lot of foundationless frames in my brood areas and in some shallow cut comb supers.
I have performed enought cutouts and examined much of the comb that I have removed.
Some of the combs have been measured, others have not.
But my finding is that comb cell size varies by location within the hive.
This is not as simple as saying that honey cells or drone cells are larger than worker cell, but more detail.
Even within worker cells specific areas, cell size depends on frame/comb location.
I know that a great debate rages on that small cell inhibits mites.
Maybe so, but I see a much more significant influence by good genetics.
Siginificant enough that cell size isn't even a major consideration in hives.
If I was trying to preserve all the stray and feral hives and kept their less mite resistant genetics around, I might worry. But when your lines are bred and proven to have low mite loads, saving every swarms queen is like taking in every stray puppy in fear that its the next westminster best in show. I don't destroy swarms our cutouts, don't get me wrong, I requeen them seasonally like any other hive with my highest performance stocks that are openly mated with the highest hygienic drones. I believe beekeeping like this allows me to provide the best hives that mother nature has had to offer. I also don't need treatment of any sort to maintain these stocks.
So pay extra for bees that make smaller cells if you wish, but I think its a fad that going to come to light as time progresses. I don't state this as some 'old smoker' beekeeper with an old ax to grind. I state this in real operational observation. Use foundationless and let the bees draw what they want and need, not what mans dictates.
I am regularly floored by beekeepers, experienced beekeepers, that have some complex that they are corrupting bees. Out west, bees need small cell to be natural. Up north, queen breeders are inbreeding too much. Bees have survived a few millions longer than man has beekept. I find it highly presumptious that man thinks he is going to cause so much missmanagement that honeybees faces serious decline or elimination.
Fear is the wasting of productive creativity.
-Jeff
Quote from: NWIN Beekeeper on July 19, 2008, 06:32:00 AM
So pay extra for bees that make smaller cells if you wish, but I think its a fad that going to come to light as time progresses. I don't state this as some 'old smoker' beekeeper with an old ax to grind. I state this in real operational observation. Use foundationless and let the bees draw what they want and need, not what mans dictates.
I would be willing to set up as an experiment, say, 4 hives next spring..all in the same yard, 2 regressed, and 2 regular...all foundationless, and just monitor them and let them do there own thing....then say, in the fall, measure comb from all 4 hives and see what the average is. I would be curious what the out come would be. I just want my bees to be what they would be naturally(as much as possible inside neat boxes). If I find there is no significant difference at the end of a season, I would see no reason to buy regressed.
--Steve
Quotehave performed enought cutouts and examined much of the comb that I have removed.
Some of the combs have been measured, others have not.
But my finding is that comb cell size varies by location within the hive.
This is not as simple as saying that honey cells or drone cells are larger than worker cell, but more detail.
Even within worker cells specific areas, cell size depends on frame/comb location.
Combs come in 3 basic sizes: worker, drone, and storage. You will find some variance even within those catagories and doesn't prevent queen from laying drone eggs in either worker or storage sized comb if it is in the larger or smaller variation of that style comb.
Generallya hives comb is set up thusly: S D W W W W D S in the brood chambers and honey supers can follow that or be something else entirely.
You can instantly regress a package with HSC.
Quote from: Robo on July 21, 2008, 08:39:46 AM
You can instantly regress a package with HSC.
I have been seriously considering HSC, and I think I may be able to justify the cost if I make my own equipment. I am really curious about the efficacy of regressing, and, being of the inquisitive sort, I would like to monitor the differences between regressing methods and between foundationless, small cell foundation, regular foundation, and perhaps HSC as well. Of course, I would need multiple hives in each category to give a more balanced representation...now if I can justify adding that many hives next year, I think I will do it, and keep a phot journal, etc to record my observations.
I have the space....time and then resources are the deciding factors.
This is turning out to be a very interesting hobby.
--Steve
I would say to check with Don.
http://www.geocities.com/fatbeeman/
Steve,
A good reason to buy a Nuc over a package is your about 4 to 5 weeks ahead in development and much less chance of a supercedure problems. I bought a 5 frame nuc last weekend of SC
Carni/Italians and they bring in more pollen than my Russians. The nucs came from southern Vt. and he may have a few left....if interested send me a PM and I'll give you his phone and e-mail.
Brgds,
John
Quote from: JhnR on July 21, 2008, 05:39:10 PM
Steve,
A good reason to buy a Nuc over a package is your about 4 to 5 weeks ahead in development and much less chance of a supercedure problems. I bought a 5 frame nuc last weekend of SC
Carni/Italians and they bring in more pollen than my Russians. The nucs came from southern Vt. and he may have a few left....if interested send me a PM and I'll give you his phone and e-mail.
Brgds,
John
John,
Thanks for the info. I will PM you for the contact info.
I am not going to start anything new this season, but will certainly be adding a number of hives next Spring.
The reason I wanted to go with a package instead of a nuc, was to see just how fast a package could draw out comb without foundation. I like Carniolans because that is what I have currently, and I have seen a big difference in temper between my Carniolans, and a couple of beeks Italians..mine being much calmer.
I started what I have now with a 5 frame nuc, and they built up FAST...so fast I think I lost some of them before I knew what was going on. All part of the learning curve I suppose.
--Steve