I've been reading about others' experience with queen cells this time of year and the varying advice about what to do under their particular circumstances. Don't know how different my situation is, but here goes:
New package of Italians hived end of April, 2 10-frame deeps fully drawn by with the exception of the 2 outer frames on the top deep. A month ago I added a medium super with 2 frames of wax foundation and the remaining frames foundationless with the wedges nailed onto the bottom of the top bars. After 2 weeks they had partially drawn comb on the foundation, nothing on the other frames. The top deep looked "honeybound" to me (heavy frames, mostly capped, little if any pollen or brood) so I stopped feeding them - the goldenrod was just beginning to bloom - and I was hoping they would consume some of the stores to make room for brood. Checked 2 days ago and it looked much the same, except the 2 middle frames in the top deep had 4" circles of empty, previously used cells surrounded by mostly capped honey, and several queen cells on the bottom of each of the 2 frames, all capped (I think). I took the outermost frame, drawn but empty, and placed it in the middle of those 2 frames, thinking that if the queen was looking for laying room, she'd have it. They are bringing in lots of pollen, but I can't see where they're putting it. Put the Boardman feeder back on.
My inclination is just to wait -- see what happens in the middle frame, see if they draw more comb in the super as the goldenrod flow picks up. Of course I'd prefer they not swarm, but if they need to supersede, so be it. I thought about putting an empty, baited covered wooden wine box with an entrance near the hive just in case -- I will be gone for 4 days. At this point I don't have the luxury of pulling frames to put in a new box or the super -- I plan to transition to mediums and I think adding another deep to the equation might be a mistake and an expense.
The only mitigating factor I can think of is that for the last week or 10 days we've had unusually cool weather -- went from high 90's to mid-80's daytime and 60-70 at night. It will be hot again. First hard frost is usually not until mid to late October. Maybe they're getting a bit head of schedule by shutting down brood and filling up stores.
What are your guesses about what is happening and what would you do?
Thanks
if you have almost a full deep of capped honey theres no reason to be feeding.
What's going on in the bottom box? Pollen? Eggs/brood? Empty space? Or honeybound?
I understand your dilemma with the queen cells. Supercedure on a same-year package is not unheard of...it is a little risky this time of year, but can have positive results IFF all goes well.
You have options. You can quick-build a nuc and raise an insurance-queen with one of the frames that has a cell on it. If you're worried about space, you can extract or swap out a frame or 2 or 3 to give some empty space.
Your bees are trying to work something out, but the outcome may be questionable. I had a nuc that I made up last year that did the same thing. I let them go (I'm not saying to do this though) and they worked it out, and did quite well this year. They started out with a very prolific queen, but later got swarmy. I spent this summer thinking that I should have freed up a little space, and that I could have kept a few capped frames of honey to give to some of my lighter colonies.
Good luck, let us know how it goes, and be safe on your travels.
Quotelots of queen cells on bottom of frames - what to do?
Start nucs
following advise that I had read "feed until they quit" really worked out poorly for my first year packages. "they quit" when they were so honey bound that they swarmed. It was a good learning experience though. I was standing about 5 ft away when they went. It was so amasing! I caught the swarm but they still left the next day however I went through my other four hives finding the same situation I made four splits. I trapped a swarm with a good queen and combine it with my swarmed hive that had become alittle weak and I beleave became queenless. I learned NOT to feed until they quit. I now have nine hives that are all doing well. My harvest came unexpectedly. First year 3# packages on foundation I didn't expect anything but is going to weigh in at about 175#s.
I can no more lift the full top deep off than I can fly. Even prying the boxes apart and moving the frames was a chore because of all the propolis. From what I could see, there was a lot of activity in the bottom deep, and there were bees bearding some at the entrance during the inspection in the middle of a warm, sunny day, just as they have been for about a month.
Danno, I am concerned about the feeding. "Feed until they stop taking it" was the advice I got when I picked up the package. The same outfit (commercial) is now feeding their hives. They NEVER stopped taking it. Occasionally I'd leave the feeder empty for a few days and when I'd put it back on the quart jar would be empty within hours so I figured they must be really hungry. They have access to both a chicken waterer near the hive and a pond 1/8 mile away. When I decided to declare the hive honeybound, I stopped feeding, 3 weeks ago. Then they built the queen cells and stopped drawing comb in the super.
I won't be able to check them for the next few days, but given that there is goldenrod everywhere and I see them bringing in both bright yellow and light pollen, and it really isn't making sense to me to feed them when they have a big box of honey to eat, I am going to leave them be. As 1of6 said, maybe they are trying to work something out, I just wish I knew what it is.
Quote from: eri on August 15, 2008, 10:25:03 AM
I can no more lift the full top deep off than I can fly. Even prying the boxes apart and moving the frames was a chore because of all the propolis. From what I could see, there was a lot of activity in the bottom deep, and there were bees bearding some at the entrance during the inspection in the middle of a warm, sunny day, just as they have been for about a month.
Good argument for going to all mediums....one of the reasons I did. Now I'm into medium 8 frames due to handicap.
QuoteDanno, I am concerned about the feeding. "Feed until they stop taking it" was the advice I got when I picked up the package. The same outfit (commercial) is now feeding their hives. They NEVER stopped taking it. Occasionally I'd leave the feeder empty for a few days and when I'd put it back on the quart jar would be empty within hours so I figured they must be really hungry. They have access to both a chicken waterer near the hive and a pond 1/8 mile away. When I decided to declare the hive honeybound, I stopped feeding, 3 weeks ago. Then they built the queen cells and stopped drawing comb in the super.
IMHO, "Feed until they stop" is the worse advise one beekeeper can give another. It almost guarantees swarms the 1st year and a struggle the 2nd year as the honey stores is from sugar syrup not natural sources. Syrup is fine for getting them started and topping off the stores before the freezes set in but it is not a good, nor recommended, way to keep bees.
My Adivse, Feed until they have a few frames of comb drawn and then let them fend for themselves. Better for the bees as they will then get a more complete food source from nature and the beekeeper can always go back and top off the hive with syrup in the fall, if necessary. My mentor always said feeding was a 1st resort to establish a swarm/package (3 gallons max) and a last resort the rest of the time.
QuoteI won't be able to check them for the next few days, but given that there is goldenrod everywhere and I see them bringing in both bright yellow and light pollen, and it really isn't making sense to me to feed them when they have a big box of honey to eat, I am going to leave them be. As 1of6 said, maybe they are trying to work something out, I just wish I knew what it is.
Goldenrod is an excellent over winter feed for bees, it is usually the last decent flow of the year and usually occurs after most of the harvesting is done.
Only feed when necessary: dearth, drought, or adverse weather that lasts long enough to induce starvation (like the PNW had this spring).