I have three hives from cut-outs this year that haven't accomplished much. In each, I probably have 4-5 solid frames of bees and that represents very little growth from when I brought them home. So, there is no reason to think that they will build up sufficiently for winter.
The most obvious strategy would be to remove two of the queens and do a three way combine, which could then probably build-up sufficiently with feeding.
But, I hate to lose two feral queens in the process.
Any other ideas for what I could do with these hives? Nuc them and overwinter perhaps? I have not overwintered a nuc before, so I don't know what the probability of success is here.
Personally, I wouldn't nuc them just because I am unsure of the success also. I would combine them and have at least one hive that I could split in the spring.
QuoteI hate to lose two feral queens in the process.
I feel your pain. But you may lose them in the spring anyway, when they swarm.
Cut them down to nuc size, they'll most likely still over winter and you can nurse those that survive next spring.
Take your weakest cutout and kill queen. Combine w/ strongest cutout. Take second strongest cutout, kill queen in one of your other weakest hives(if you have any) and combine w/ feral queen. Lose your two weakest queens and strengthen all of them.
or- stack all three to to aid w/ warmth, provide sugar board at start of winter and give them patties very early in spring.
I would 86 the weakest queen, maybe two weakest and combine, your queens may be duds, you'll see in the spring if they make it.
Put out swarm traps in spring maybe you'll catch a feral swarm and can use that colony to build from.
Not all queens are created equal.
Now on the other hand if resources are poor in nectar and pollen and you don't subsitute each they may not build at YOUR speed.
...JP
Well, if you were doing all you should and they were/are still weak then maybe the queens though feral just arent as good as they should be. Killing the 2 weaker ones and combining the hives to me would be your best bet. You would probably still have to do so in spring(?) anyway
My thinking as well Sean, glad you are ok and Ike didn't pass your way.
...JP
I think the weakness of these hives has more to do with the fact that they were some of my first cut-outs and my technique was much more destructive earlier in the year. In my later jobs, I killed a lot less bees and destroyed a lot less comb. Those hives recovered much faster.
But, they certainly could be dud queens as well.
I think I may split the difference - combine the two strongest and nuc the weakest, just as an experiment since I've never wintered a nuc.
I tend to kill a lot of bees when I start experimenting, but I sure do learn a lot.
Keep in mind too...feral doesn't equal better. Sure, it can, but that is no guarantee. They could be 3 year old queens from a keeper on the other side of the woods for all you know.
QuoteCut them down to nuc size, they'll most likely still over winter and you can nurse those that survive next spring.
Brian, have you ever successfully overwintered a nuc out your way? I imagine your winters get pretty cold? If you have done so successfully, can you shed some light on what you did and how much honey you overwintered them with? I had three weak hives I combined earlier (each hive would have filled a medium nuc (2 boxes). If I had reliable information on how to get nucs overwintered, I may have been more prone to nuc 'em and not combine them. I would rather not use artificial heat sources either. My hives are a good ways away from any electrical.
Sure - I just don't like to dispatch a queen that is effectively untested. Since I've been raising my own queens, I like to have plenty of genetic diversity.
You are right about feral not necessarily meaning much - one of my first cut-outs this year had a marked queen.
Winters here aren't very cold, but they are long and wet. Average lows only gets down to about 34 degrees and record lows only to 15 degrees (that might happen only one or two days a year). The big problem is that average highs only climb above 60 for about three and a half months.
**Thinking "out loud"**
I guess to the bees (being cold blooded) after the temperature drops to a certain degree, it's all relative. That being the case, regardless of whether or not it's 34 degrees or -34 degrees, perhaps you could nuc a hive the same way. I think the problem could be when it warms up. The bees will use up the honey faster and eventually run out of stores before winter is over. I believe wind could be a problem in that regard too.
...I need to read more about overwintering nucs.
Quote from: bassman1977 on September 09, 2008, 02:25:10 PM
QuoteCut them down to nuc size, they'll most likely still over winter and you can nurse those that survive next spring.
Brian, have you ever successfully overwintered a nuc out your way? I imagine your winters get pretty cold? If you have done so successfully, can you shed some light on what you did and how much honey you overwintered them with? I had three weak hives I combined earlier (each hive would have filled a medium nuc (2 boxes). If I had reliable information on how to get nucs overwintered, I may have been more prone to nuc 'em and not combine them. I would rather not use artificial heat sources either. My hives are a good ways away from any electrical.
Yes, I overwintered 2 hives last year with medium nucs. I put a 2nd nuc box with capped honey above the nuc with the bees. They overwintered and still had a couple of frames of honey in the spring.....then along came a prolonged cold spell and I last them because they had used their left over stores to begin building brood. The ended up eating the eggs, larvae, and white pupae in an attempt to survive.
I have since built up the 2 survivors (out of 5 counting the nucs) from a pint of bees in each hive with surviving queens to 3 mediums, but it has taken all summer to do so.
QuoteYes, I overwintered 2 hives last year with medium nucs. I put a 2nd nuc box with capped honey above the nuc with the bees. They overwintered and still had a couple of frames of honey in the spring.....then along came a prolonged cold spell and I last them because they had used their left over stores to begin building brood. The ended up eating the eggs, larvae, and white pupae in an attempt to survive.
I have since built up the 2 survivors (out of 5 counting the nucs) from a pint of bees in each hive with surviving queens to 3 mediums, but it has taken all summer to do so.
Very nice. I'm going to have to give that a shot next year if the opportunity presents itself. Thanks for the info.
If you have some very strong hives, you could steal a frame of brood and bees and a couple of frames of honey from each of them to boost the weak ones.
I wondered where that marked Queen went. Tony
Quote from: JP on September 09, 2008, 01:02:56 PM
My thinking as well Sean, glad you are ok and Ike didn't pass your way.
...JP
hi. Thanks. got a little rain but nothing much. Glad to know you're ok as well despite the forced journey.