I have a 5 frame nuc that is strong - however I am not sure how to make sure they have enough for the winter. Should I transfer this nuc to a full box w/ more frames of honey - or add another 5 frame nuc box on top of the existing w/ 5 frames of honey? Any ideas. This will be overwintering in Michigan. Thanks.
I have asked these questions resently. I have 2 that I will be overwintering here in Mi. Mine are 2 story deep nucs, one very strong and one average. the strong one has alot of stores but the weak one I am going to feed until the top box is full. I am going to sandwich them together and wrap with tar paper. At the michigan beekeepers spring meeting at Michigan State one speaker talked about doing this and compared it a colony doing so well living in the walls of a building. 16" wide, 3 1/2" deep and 8 ft high. It makes sense, all the food is right above them not off to the side.
there are a few people on here with the same geographic winter as yours. They have overwintered nucs with success. Do a search on that topic I know its been discussed I just don't remember when
Keith
Would there be any benefit to try to overwinter them in a basement? Just a thought.
It wouldn't be as cold or windy and the humidity can be controlled if necessary. Also the temperature would be more constant.
I know people have tried this but I don't know how effective it is as I have not tried it personally. I might try it this season as I have a cold basement (around 40 degrees) but not nearly as cold as the outdoors in Massachusetts during January and February.
Try to include a small hole for a top entrance. I tried to overwinter two 5 frame nucs last year, but the moisture buildup got to them, and they both died. I built a box from 2" foam insulation, with holes drilled in the front for them to leave on warm days. This helped keep some warmth inside, and also blocked the wind. But it would have been good to have top ventilation in the nucs to let the moist air out. It wouldn't cause problems in the styrofoam chamber. Also, it wouldn't hurt to have a shim and some fondant ready to feed if they run out of food. Inspect them on any 50-degree day during winter, just like a regular hive.
Thanks for the replies. - So I opened up the Nuc yesterday - and they pretty much have the nuc filled w/ honey, and about 4 frames are covered w/ bees. I added another nuc on top filled w/ honey. I guess my next concern is cluster size. Will there be enough bees? or I guess what is a proper cluster size for winter survival.....
Quote from: jgarzasr on September 25, 2008, 11:09:00 AM
Thanks for the replies. - So I opened up the Nuc yesterday - and they pretty much have the nuc filled w/ honey, and about 4 frames are covered w/ bees. I added another nuc on top filled w/ honey. I guess my next concern is cluster size. Will there be enough bees? or I guess what is a proper cluster size for winter survival.....
A 2 tier nuc is a good way to overwinter a small hive. It is much easier for the bees to regulate temps vertically verses horizonally, up is better than width. Feed them so they fill both nucs with stores, to the point that any brood chamber is about 80% backfilled.
A nuc will overwinter a smaller cluster than a full sized hive, the size of the surviving cluster isn't as important as what they do with the remaining stores in the spring and how well they build up once they begin to forage in earnest. Even a baseball sized cluster, come spring, will surprize you.
Brian
I have a question about your statement about regulating temp up instead of out. On my first year, 2 deep 10 frame hives I am leaving a extra med. super. I figure this will give them a extra 25-30#s. Some have made the statement that its to much room for them to heat but I was under the impression that they only heat the cluster not the whole inside. To me leaving the extra food above the cluster in another medium seems to make sense. Do you see a problem with this?
heat rises...they will lose heat into the extra space I would surmise...only a newbee guess...
heat rises yes and it takes excess moisture out the top enterance with it
The bees do not heat the entire cluster. The mantel layer (outer layer) of bees serves as insulation for the inner bees. They do not participate in the heating of the core of the cluster.
Anything warmer than 40 F is too warm for them to winter. They will be too active and not survive well. Cellar wintering was popular at one time, but not a heated basement. An unheated cellar. There are tricks to that as well. You need a lot of ventilation if you have very many hives and you need it dark all the time with no light ever. If you go to check on them you need a red light so you don't set them off trying to rear brood. Once they start rearing brood they need frequent cleansing flights. Try a search on indoor wintering.
Here is a site that describes the winter cluster plus a picture
http://www.bees-online.com/Winter.htm
Regards,
Ernie
Quote from: danno on September 25, 2008, 12:36:44 PM
Brian
I have a question about your statement about regulating temp up instead of out. On my first year, 2 deep 10 frame hives I am leaving a extra med. super. I figure this will give them a extra 25-30#s. Some have made the statement that its to much room for them to heat but I was under the impression that they only heat the cluster not the whole inside. To me leaving the extra food above the cluster in another medium seems to make sense. Do you see a problem with this?
To answer your questions:
I have yet to find anyplace, worldwide, that needs more than 2 deeps of stores, or the equivalent, to survive a winter.
The more space the more moisture is retained within the hive. A vent at the top, even a small one, serves to vent that moisture so it doesn't rain back down on the bees. One condensation reaches a given point it rains, wet bees on cold nights (or days) die. A vent at the bottom (SBB) and one at the top (Irmirie shim) allows the moisture to vent naturally and doesn't affect the bees warmth in cluster.
With a narrower space, such as an 8 frame verses a 10 frames, less moisture accumulates above and around the bees, less moisture means less rain. Less rain means a better survival rate.
Another consideration is the narrower the hive the smaller the cluster and the slower the consumption of stores. It is the moisture, not the cluster size that kills the bees. I've overwintered Russian bees in a 2 tier medium nuc hive and still had 2.5 frames (out of 10) of stores come spring although the cluster size wasn't much larger than a softball.
Hope those points helps you out.