Set up my first colony this past spring. They have done very well and are going into the winter guite strong: lots of bees and stores.
About one week ago, I purchased and moved another older and well established colony about 2' from the first. I have no doubt it was much stronger than the existing colony. Today was the first warm, sunny day since the move. Lots of bees out and about. I noticed twice as many bees returning to the "new" colony as the original, I figure, just more bees there, that makes sense, right? What was most alarming was the sight of the bees on the original, balled up and rolling on the landing board. Two, three or four bees seemed to be on one, dragging her off, biting wings, dropping to the ground in a cluster. It looked chaotic, bees everywhere in bunches.
I have entrance reducers on, so access is limited. Is the first colony in danger and were they being robbed?
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm
Do what MB said about closing up and waiting till morning. Robbers will be the first ones active and will be out in extremely cold weather even before the sun peaks it's head.
The fact that they were defending, is a good sign.
You may want to set up a couple feeders away from the hive. You can use a couple jars set up on a couple thin strips of wood. This will do two things. Keep the strong hive occupied, and feed the weaker one also.
Here is a picture of a remote feeding station with boardman feeders. (which are no good at entrances anyways)
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x236/BjornBee/Beepictures059.jpg)
Quote from: Michael Bush on October 27, 2008, 07:27:00 AM
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesrobbing.htm
"Wrestling at the entrance is pretty much a give away,"
Well, I guess that's my answer right there.
Quote from: BjornBee on October 27, 2008, 07:56:38 AM
You may want to set up a couple feeders away from the hive.
Distance? 5'? 50'?
I'll get out there first thing this morning and take another look.
Now that I kow what to look for, and how to slow it down, or even stop it, what can I do to
prevent it in the future?
Reduce entrances as soon as there is a dearth on ALL the hives. This will slow down a robbing frenzy as the robbers can't get in and out so fast either. You can build robber screens if you like, but I seldom use them. They are nice when you are desperate to stop a robbing frenzy though and can be used all the time if you want.
Paul,
The only yard I feed, from a feeding station, is in my home yard. I have it about 50 feet from the end of the hive row. The first day they seem to be all confused and you have bees flying everywhere. But after that they get zoomed in on the location, and that all stops. I think as far as you can get it, perhaps 100 yards away would be nice. But that's not always doable.
Quote from: BjornBee on October 28, 2008, 08:55:06 AM
Paul,
The only yard I feed, from a feeding station, is in my home yard. I have it about 50 feet from the end of the hive row. The first day they seem to be all confused and you have bees flying everywhere. But after that they get zoomed in on the location, and that all stops. I think as far as you can get it, perhaps 100 yards away would be nice. But that's not always doable.
I like to place my communal feeder near a natural source of nectar as this also helps to reduce robbing. My feeding station is under an apple tree in the orchard next to wild blackberries. About 100 feet from the hives. When community feeding it is always best to reduce entrances somewhat, since I used bottomless hives that means putting the mite boards in.
I reduced all the entrances last weekend after first observing the robbing, then the weather turned colder and there was little activity for several days.
Today it's warm and sunny, and they are back at it again. hundreds of bees trying to get into the original, weaker colony, piled up at the seam where the two bodies meet and there is a small gap, trying to squeeze through. It feels lighter than the other at this point, no doubt because there is less honey in it now. Only one small entrance per colony now, weaker one stuffed with grass.
I don't have anything to feed with , other than top feeders that sit under the outer cover. Who should be fed? Both colonies? I appears one is greedy,as they already have enough stores and the other is weak, and may be in jepordy of not having enough.
Should I expect to see this behavior continue in the future? the new bees in the duck box (~10' away) are not being bothered at all, just the one colony that was being targeted last weekend. I'm to head out of town for work soon and I doubt my wife has the time/desire/knowlede to deal with this.
i tried remote feeding for the first time this year. it was more a matter of convenience for my husband, as i was gone so much this year. it seemed to work well, but they emptied two quail feeders every day that he fed, in about an hour. made wonder if the hives were getting enough stored. when i finally got a chance to check, i found that most were doing ok on stores, but the weaker hive, the one that will probably die out this winter anyway, didn't have much stored. my guess is that they didn't have adequate foragers to compete with the large numbers from the other hives.
i like the idea of multiple bordman feeders, but that looks like more work than just feeding each hive? maybe more quail feeders next year?
anyway, if you do remote feeding, make sure you have enough feeders out to supply all hives. remote feeding did solve the robbing problems even for the weaker hive.
I was told that feeding outside the hive would promote robbing.
Quote from: BjornBee on October 27, 2008, 07:56:38 AM
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x236/BjornBee/Beepictures059.jpg)
So is this out feeding/ remote feeding setting the bee's up as criminals for life or just when the going is hard.
Kathyp,
Weak and light hives are usually that way due to some reason. Those same weak or light hives are certainly at a disadvantage in the amount they get at open feeders. But if you think about it, each hive can only take and process what theyare able to do. Strong hives get more, weak hives get less. But your maximizing what each hive can do.
It's the beekeeper that needs to equalize, transfer frames of honey, and manipulate hives to a point that each has the best shot at survival. To expect a weak or light hive to collect, and process enough syrup may be asking too much. Let each hive maximize production of storing nbectar/honey and take extra steps to help those weak or light hives.
greywullf,
If you lose hives due to open feeding and any robbing....your going to lose those colonies anyways. You as the beekeeper need to have them at a point where they can defend against other hives by getting them ready a couple months ago, reducing entrances, etc. What I have found out, is a hive robbed, will and would be a hive robbed anyways. If they can not defend the entrance, they will eventually be tested and be robbed out anyways.
And at least here in the north....if I need to take extra steps to keep a weak hive from being robbed...they are not making it to spring anyways.
Community feeding can be an end in and of itself but it does work well as a distractor when feeding weaker hives directly in a small bee yard. Once you have a bee yard where there are 3 or more weak hives the distraction of open feeding gets minimized and it is more important to inspect each hive, equalize the stores within by swapping frames, waiting a few days and then feeding.
Any time you are feeding you should reduce the hive entrances or use robbing screens on the hives being feed.
I usually use several 1 gallon pail feeders with a minimum of 24 feeders holes in each lid. 2 average sized hives wil drain a 1 gallon can feeder in a day. I use at least 2 1 gallon feeders at a time for 2 hives, more hives require more feeders. Again this is in addition to what is being feed inside the hive.
the weak hive is the one with chalkbrood. just for the sake of my own education, i have tried a number of things to build it up over the last 2 year, including adding a smaller swarm to it and requeening. nothing has worked, so i have ceased my efforts. i do not expect it to live through the winter. i just found the observation of the stores disparity to be interesting..... :-)
Kathy, that chalkbrood problem you have sounds like an ongoing thing. I think that you need to figure out what to do here. I have had chalkbrood a couple of years ago and wound up losing that colony eventually. Requeening, nothing seemed to help. Now I don't know too much about chalkbrood, but some may chime in. Start a thread on this girl. I wonder if the chalkbrood spores (do they have spores) has remained in the comb of this colony and will never disappear, reinfecting the colony over and over. I think that you need to look into this. I could help you out if you only ask, I could do some research for you? Need help? Just ask me, or like I said, start that thread. I know you have had bad issues with that chalkbrood. Have the most wonderful and awesome day, great health wishes to us all. Cindi
the new thread might be educational. i don't expect to save this hive, but it survived last winter and i didn't think it would :-)