Howdy folks, I am a soon to be new bee keeper. My 4# package of Hardeman's Russian bees we'll be arriving on the week of April 22nd. A friend of mine is a bee keeper in Oklahoma and say's he likes to give them 2 deeps for brood and 1 medium super for honey. Then after they have that filled he'll put a medium super on for himself. That allows them to have a medium super of honey all to theirselves and he don't need to feed them past the first spring.
Is this something that is the norm or should they be able to survive on just the 2 deep brooders? I am brand new to this. What is the norm for yal?
kind of depends on where you are. that would be to much room for me, but might be needed in a warmer place. why don't you got into your profile and put your location. it will help folks give you better answers.
To me, everything you asked is going to depend on how fast they fill out the boxes. I like two brood boxes, but I use a deep and a medium mostly for brood. The more you leave on them during a dearth (no nectar flow) or to winter on, the better off they are. Just make sure you don't give them too much empty space all at once or they can't keep the wax moths or SMB ran out. Use the 7/10 rule. When they have 7 frames filled out, then add another box. I'd say yeah, you can have the 4th box.
Welcome.
Sorry about that, this is my first post on this forum. I've put the location in. Brad
Two deeps is common here. Three deeps is what the old ABC XYZ of beekeeping calls a food box and, while not as common, is done by some people. Dee Lusby leaves four or five deeps all the time on the hives. Sometimes with honey in them and sometimes not depending on when she harvested.
I guess I'm asking if I need to leave them a medium super on top of the 2 deeps or if I can just let them have the 2 deeps and have both of the medium supers for me? Brad
there is no one answer to that. i would give you a qualified 'yes' as an answer. if your late summer/early fall management is good and they are headed into winter with enough stores, 2 deeps should be adequate. if you experience a lot of warmer weather during the winter and they are apt to go through stores quickly or continue to raise brood, then more is better.
i overwinter with either 2 deeps or a deep and medium....even one deep if it's a small hive.
they best way to tell is to check your hive at the end of your honey season and see what they have stored in the bottom boxes. if they have enough, or you have time to feed them and get stores up, take your honey :-)
The results vary by climate and bees. Some places that extra box will result in a bigger spring build up. Other places it won't. I think you should experiment and find out what works where you are with your bees.
Bees cannot eat wooden boxes or frames. If you want an answer to your question, weigh each box empty, along with the top and bottom. Write it down.
Going into winter in the temperate zone, as you and I are, your hive should weigh 60 lb. plus the empty weight, or more. If not, 10 boxes won't be enough for them to make it. It's the contents you need to measure, not the containers.
I am not aware of anyplace in the USA, includin Alaska, that requires more than the equivalent of 2 deeps to overwinter. But a little extra usually puts the mind of the beekeeper at ease.
If the bees have the equivalent of 20 deep frames of capped stores they will make it through the winter. To that end they should be forced to back fill the brood chamber as much as possible to the point they start building burr comb to store the extra. I like seeing some burr comb in late fall as it is an indicator of how ready my bees are for winter. If there is not enough forage for them to achieve that amount of stores naturally then the beekeeper should feed until they are. I like my hive to go into the winter with no more the a silver dollar sized brood area on both sides and in the center of 2 frames, everything else is stores.
Thank's fellas, This is all good info and I appreciate it. Brad
For a beginner,
The best advise is to go to your local library and get some bee-books, they can get them from other libraries thru the inter-library loan program.
Vist your Co./ State Agriculture Office , they should have or can get you lots of info.
Then go to your local bee club and get LOCAL advice.
Velbert a big Queen Breeder isn't to far from you across the Ok. State line.
Also take forum info with a grain of salt. What works well in Flordia, New York or California may not work at all in Your neighborhood.
Bee-Bop
" GO HOGS "
One thing I would say is NOT to start with the extra super. Two deeps only, I fact I prefer to start with only 1 deep intil 4-5 frames are drawn and layed in. Easyier to inspect and the seem to draw better knowing exactly where you want them. Giving them too much space to start in has given me issues with spotty comb drawing right away. some bees will pick a spot to start away from teh center mass. when they do that they are not contributing to hive growth yet. ( off doing there own thing) so I try to confine them a bit more on starter hives. When both deeps ar drawn well and YOU are sure they have enough for winter and them selves add a super. For starter hives I very seldom get more than 10-15 lbs thew first year. (depends on teh queen) I am in the same climate belt as you and I probably leeve to much honey on in the winter (raised in northern IA so I tand to think colder) but I leave mine with 2 full deeps
I like to leave a medium super on. Some seem to need it and some don't but at least for sure they have enough. And come spring you can always extract it then. Like Brian says it gives peace of mind to the keeper. I would say you do not have to leave the medium but I always rest better doing so.
All great info folk's. I,m going to attend a bee club meeting next month but, I'm afraid I'll not be able to be a regular as the meeting place is an hour away and 2 hours drive time in the evening seems a little excessive. There is a big time beek here in town and I'll try to rack his brain. Thank's, Brad
Also, if you use an excluder, do not leave it between the 2 deeps and the medium going into winter. The workers will move up into the medium for the stored honey, but the queen can't and she will starve or freeze.
Quote from: heaflaw on February 13, 2009, 12:24:27 AM
Also, if you use an excluder, do not leave it between the 2 deeps and the medium going into winter. The workers will move up into the medium for the stored honey, but the queen can't and she will starve or freeze.
The bees will cluster at the top of the brood chamber, so if the frames in the supers have had brood in them then this is true, if, however, the super has virgin comb the cluster will stay below it and transfer the honey from the outer reaches to the cluster area.
Still, anyone who leaves an excluder on over the winter is a fool.