I looked first, but there isn't a sub-category called "Stupid Newbee Questions". These bees were hived from a package 10 days ago, and I looked and looked for a the Queen or some tiny little eggs - no luck - then it dawned on me (while I'm trying to sleep at 2:30 am) that I could actually have capped brood by now. So I got up and zoomed in on some of the pictures that my wife took from about 15 feet away and sure enough it looks to me like that could be capped brood. Only I don't know exactly what it looks like.
So what do you think? is this capped brood, or honey?
(http://doorgarden.com/images/critters/bee-pictures/brood/is-this-brood.jpg)
zoomed a little tighter:
(http://doorgarden.com/images/critters/bee-pictures/brood/is-this-brood-zoomed.jpg)
Can anyone recommend a good non-habit-forming sleep aid?
I see larva in thr 2end pic lower left corner. BTW I get some of my best brain farts when I wake up in the middle of the nite.
Joan
Looks like capped brood to me.
How long has the package been installed?
G3
Quote from: G3farms on May 22, 2009, 07:28:54 AM
Looks like capped brood to me.
How long has the package been installed?
G3
10 days. If she went right to work it would be just enough.
Quote from: adgjoan on May 22, 2009, 06:28:51 AM
I see larva in thr 2end pic lower left corner. BTW I get some of my best brain farts when I wake up in the middle of the nite.
Joan
I hope you're right about the larva. I bet you are.
I think your subconscious wakes you up when it thinks it's come up with something important.
There may be some capped brood dead center of the second pic, hard to tell by these pictures.
Does it look like this? (http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9959/cimg2777.th.jpg) (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg2777.jpg)
...JP
Quote from: JP on May 22, 2009, 08:48:11 AM
There may be some capped brood dead center of the second pic, hard to tell by these pictures.
Does it look like this? (http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9959/cimg2777.th.jpg) (http://img249.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg2777.jpg)
...JP
I don't know, kinda. I wish it did. That one looks nearly perfect.
When I was looking for the queen I wasn't even thinking of capped brood or larva as a possibility yet so I wasn't really looking for them.
That looks like brood to me. I second the larvae in the lower left, and the cappings are just opaque enough to be brood, versus honey which is typically a little more translucent and not as consistent colored.
Rick
I zoomed in on the pic and yes that is larva in the bottom pic.
G3
Yes it is capped brood.
It looks like you are doing foundationless, which means the bees are frantically trying to build comb and the comb that is built is in high demand for pollen storage, nectar storage and brood rearing. With the need for comb and the shortage of it, they grab what they can for each purpose and therefore there is intermixing and that is why you don't have a nice solid pattern, but voids. They may start storing nectar and pollen in a cell and then move it and then the queen will lay in it putting that cell a day or so behind adjacent cells. If you look close, there are no empty cells, so resources are all being used and just intermingled.
As far as sleep aids, a tablespoon of honey before bed works wonders. Read the Hibernation Diet.....
at least you had pics to look at and didn't have to sneak out to the hive in the middle of the night.
pictures are invaluable. we see so much when we can take our time and look at them. they are especially great when you are just learning or have questions for the forum.
well done. grab a nap today :-D
You could always just scrap the cap on a cell too. I had a second box on a hive and it was filling with nectar and honey and then there was a patch in the center that looked kinda like brood but it was in the middle of a nectar frame. So I scratched a cap and sure enough it was brood. I was pleased to see the queen had visited the upper box.
Nice pics.
Quote from: David LaFerney on May 22, 2009, 04:47:25 AM
Can anyone recommend a good non-habit-forming sleep aid?
A good whack from a cast iron frying pan always works and is non-habbit forming, although it gives you a head ache just as bad as sleeping pills will give you.
Check with your doctor, there might be an underlying reason why you're not sleeping well. Could have sleep apnea. Or like me, I had carpal tunnel in both hands which kept waking me several times each night. Had surgery and I'm cured!!!!
Sean Kelly
Quote from: Robo on May 22, 2009, 09:40:15 AM
Yes it is capped brood.
It looks like you are doing foundationless, which means the bees are frantically trying to build comb and the comb that is built is in high demand for pollen storage, nectar storage and brood rearing. With the need for comb and the shortage of it, they grab what they can for each purpose and therefore there is intermixing and that is why you don't have a nice solid pattern, but voids. They may start storing nectar and pollen in a cell and then move it and then the queen will lay in it putting that cell a day or so behind adjacent cells. If you look close, there are no empty cells, so resources are all being used and just intermingled.
As far as sleep aids, a tablespoon of honey before bed works wonders. Read the Hibernation Diet.....
Good information. Thanks.
Quote from: kathyp on May 22, 2009, 10:20:15 AM
at least you had pics to look at and didn't have to sneak out to the hive in the middle of the night.
pictures are invaluable. we see so much when we can take our time and look at them. they are especially great when you are just learning or have questions for the forum.
well done. grab a nap today :-D
Thanks. I can't picture going out in the middle of the night though. I am glad I had the pictures - My wife took them. I think she's surprised at how interested she is in my new hobby.
I see larva also. As for the sleeping problems. I get on this website and read. After a half hour my mind is clear and I go back to sleep. You guys didn't know what a service you are performing not only giving great advice, but helping those of us who occasionally have difficulty sleeping.
Yeah that's brood comb no doubt about it mostly sealed brood in middle mature larvae on outside edges--what I don't quite understand id why would anyone want to force the bees to manufacture the singular most resource expensive produce the base of the combs the foundation as it were when you can provide it for them or is this one of those 4.9 attempts to try to varroa proof your bees. Just wondering.
Barry
As for a good sleep aid might I suggest a good pot of fresh perked coffee, never put me to sleep, but atleast I was drinking something I actually enjoyed, and coffee NEVER interfered with my sleep.
Barry
melatonin. you will get a good night sleep and not be hung over in the morning. one added advantage is that for the first week or so, you will have vivid dreams. they are awesome. make sure you read a really good book before dropping off. you may find yourself riding dragons, or killing bad guys through the night! :evil:
Quote from: Barry on May 23, 2009, 01:03:25 PM
what I don't quite understand id why would anyone want to force the bees to manufacture the singular most resource expensive produce the base of the combs the foundation as it were when you can provide it for them or is this one of those 4.9 attempts to try to varroa proof your bees. Just wondering.
Barry
I'm completly new at this so I wouldn't presume to
Know if foundationless is better or not, but here's why I'm doing it -
1) I've read very reasonable explanations of why foundationless might be better - maybe correct, maybe not.
2) If I change my mind it will be pretty easy to start using foundation at any point, but if I start out using foundation it would be a lot harder to remove it from the system.
3) Since at this point beekeeping is strictly a hobby efficient production of honey is completely immaterial. I'm just trying to learn and enjoy.
one of the most persuasive arguments for me was that with foundation, the bees must work both sides, dividing their efforts. when they are building comb from scratch, they are working straight down (you hope) and working together. comb building is more efficient, thus less labor intensive.
it's also cheaper, and probably healthier since the wax used for foundation may contain remnants of treatments past.
What I like about going foundationless is the bees are given the opportunity to make whatever cell size they want to. I think it makes for happier bees IMO. At least I like to think so. ;)
...JP
Quote from: kathyp on May 23, 2009, 05:06:00 PM
it's also cheaper, and probably healthier since the wax used for foundation may contain remnants of treatments past.
All that too. As far as I'm concerned the fewer manufactured things (foundation, wooden ware, chemicals, etc) that I have to use, the better. I don't put poison on my yard or garden, and I don't want to use it on bees either if there is any way to avoid it.
Quote from: JP on May 23, 2009, 07:00:47 PM
What I like about going foundationless is the bees are given the opportunity to make whatever cell size they want to. I think it makes for happier bees IMO. At least I like to think so. ;)
...JP
You apparently have quite a lot of experience, and I'm sure your opinion is valuable. It seems to me that going foundationless puts one in pretty good company. I'm sure that would also be true if I did use foundation. Anyway it seems to be a perfectly valid choice.
Quote from: kathyp on May 23, 2009, 03:54:56 PM
melatonin. you will get a good night sleep and not be hung over in the morning. one added advantage is that for the first week or so, you will have vivid dreams. they are awesome. make sure you read a really good book before dropping off. you may find yourself riding dragons, or killing bad guys through the night! :evil:
Sounds like you've read the "Eragon" series. Melatonin only works for me about 1/3 of the time. For some reason I only remember having dreams if I can sleep until I'm ready to get up on my own - not very often.
If I every win the lottery I'm gonna start sleeping until I'm ready to get up - maybe even 7 or 7:30 sometimes.
Quote from: Sean Kelly on May 22, 2009, 02:53:51 PM
Quote from: David LaFerney on May 22, 2009, 04:47:25 AM
Can anyone recommend a good non-habit-forming sleep aid?
a good whack from a cast iron frying pan always works and is non-habbit forming, although it gives you a head ache just as bad as sleeping pills will give you.
Check with your doctor, there might be an underlying reason why you're not sleeping well. Could have sleep apnea. Or like me, I had carpal tunnel in both hands which kept waking me several times each night. Had surgery and I'm cured!!!!
Sean Kelly
It could just be my guilty conscience.
QuoteSounds like you've read the "Eragon" series
the 1st 2. i am waiting for the library to kick loose the 3rd :-)
Wasn't trying to be abusive, not at all nor critical, I do understand the concepts of foundationless beekeeping, hence the top bar hives showing up through out the country. As I have always stated in most all the posts here and elsewhere these are my personal preferences, I thought I remembered the conversion ratios of nectar to honey and honey to wax is really quite amazing.
Barry
QuoteWasn't trying to be abusive, not at all nor critical, I do understand the concepts of foundationless beekeeping
i thought it was a good question. there are some drawbacks to foundationless.
you have to keep an eye on it because the bees will sometimes make wonky comb.
the comb is fragile when it's not completely attached, so you have to use care when you inspect.
it's a preference thing.
Quote from: Barry on May 24, 2009, 01:31:35 PM
Wasn't trying to be abusive, not at all nor critical, I do understand the concepts of foundationless beekeeping, hence the top bar hives showing up through out the country. As I have always stated in most all the posts here and elsewhere these are my personal preferences, I thought I remembered the conversion ratios of nectar to honey and honey to wax is really quite amazing.
Barry
No problem. Everything is subject to opinion.
However I might point out that even if you use foundation the only wax that you are supplying is the "bottom" of the cell chambers, and if you examine a piece of "natural" honey comb you will see that that part of it is as thin and gauzy as a single ply of tissue paper. I bet a frames worth of foundation doesn't save the bees a piece of wax much bigger than a lima bean.
I've also noticed that the bottoms of the cells aren't flat at all - it's kind of a complex inverse pyramidal shape because the center of the cells on one side are nested between the cells on the other side. Who knows if that makes any difference to the bees - but that's how they make it. I can imagine that the natural shape fits the developing brood better than a flat bottom does.
Is the cell bottom flat on foundation?
A lot of times its good to give them some drawn comb or even foundation next to foundationless with starter strips to get them drawing correctly. Some love to cross comb.
BTW, I use waxed plasticell in my honey supers.
...JP
The only problem I noted with foundation, is the occasional hole chewed through the bottom corners, or along the bottom bars, never had issues with fully drawn out foundation. I use only deep supers, and use them with foundation to with stand extraction. wired and all that, brood chambers do not require wiring, as not subject to rigors of being extracted. :-D
Barry
Also as a second thought, new comb is exceedingly fragile very delicate, and if by chance they cross brace the combs well could damage the combs. Just one more thought
Barry
Quotevery delicate, and if by chance they cross brace the combs well could damage the combs
that's why you have to keep an eye on how they start. for the most part, with starter strips, they do a great job. some will mess up. i put a full sheet of foundation down the middle with a new hive, or a frame of drawn foundation if i have extra. that pretty much keeps things straight.
JP, really....quoting me..... :evil: