I caught one of my hives about to swarm 2 months ago. I simulated a swarm by taking the queen and 5 frames of bees out. 2 weeks ago I went thru the hive and found the queen but their were no eggs, larva, or brood. When I went to my out-yard yesterday the first thing I noticed about this hive was there were hardly any bees on the landing board. I went thru the hive again and this time there's no queen, eggs, larva, or brood and the population of bees is pretty low. I'm gonna have to requeen. This hive consists of 5 medium supers and I'm ready to pull the honey off. Should I pull the honey supers off before I requeen, leave them on, or does it not make any difference?
Pull enough supers off to leave 80% or more of the remaining frames covered with bees before requeening.
Quoteno queen, eggs, larva, or brood and the population of bees is pretty low.
The hive swarmed. It is possible that the new queen hasn't started laying yet. Bees will destroy a queen cell very rapidly, often within 24 hours of the queen hatching so trying to find evidence of a new queen can be problematic. If the hive swarmed early in during the development stage of the new queen then what you see is normal. Chances are that by the time you obtain a new queen you'll find evidence of one in the hive.
I would recommend installing a frame of brood, sans bees, and see what happens. It will also serve to up the dwindling population.
So Brian I am just curious because I always thought that if you got the queen out when splitting, then you can be pretty confident that they will not swarm with that queen.
On second thought I may have misunderstood the post. I guess he was going through the parent hive??? If we are talking about the parent hive, then I take back my question.
Quote from: annette on June 04, 2009, 03:45:31 PM
So Brian I am just curious because I always thought that if you got the queen out when splitting, then you can be pretty confident that they will not swarm with that queen.
It reduces the chances of a swarm, it doesn't remove it. A split hive will still swarm about 30-40% of the time.
OK, so we are talking about the hive that he split with the original queen. Wow I did not know this could happen after removing the queen.
Oh yes!!! I split one a few years back and after split it swarmed at least twice (as my memory serves me and it ain't what it once was, my memory that is :shock:) Also if you split after finding cells, of course it is more likely to swarm than a split done before cells to prevent swarming.
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on June 04, 2009, 03:07:09 PM
I would recommend installing a frame of brood, sans bees, and see what happens. It will also serve to up the dwindling population.
Why sans the bees? I put 2 frames of eggs in the hive yesterday but it still had the nurse bees on it. I'm wondering if all the rain we had this spring didn't mess-up some of the mating flights? Would pulling the honey supers off this weekend cause to much of a commotion?
Quote from: annette on June 04, 2009, 03:45:31 PM
So Brian I am just curious because I always thought that if you got the queen out when splitting, then you can be pretty confident that they will not swarm with that queen.
Me too!
I'm confused :? I thought the parent hive swarmed after the split not the split with the old queen. I have never had that happen --- split with old queen swarm.
Quote from: sc-bee on June 04, 2009, 08:17:31 PM
I'm confused :? I thought the parent hive swarmed after the split not the split with the old queen. I have never had that happen --- split with old queen swarm.
Thats what has me perplexed also
No, the split didn't swarm and I don't think the parent hive swarmed either. To much time has passed for there to still be a virgin queen. But I've been wrong before.
Quote from: Wes Sapp on June 04, 2009, 06:45:30 PM
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on June 04, 2009, 03:07:09 PM
I would recommend installing a frame of brood, sans bees, and see what happens. It will also serve to up the dwindling population.
Why sans the bees? I put 2 frames of eggs in the hive yesterday but it still had the nurse bees on it. I'm wondering if all the rain we had this spring didn't mess-up some of the mating flights? Would pulling the honey supers off this weekend cause to much of a commotion?
If you are removing frames from one hive to put into another the bees will often fight, but sans bees elliminates that. If using frames from 2 or more hives then the sent from several hives at once confuses the bees and they won't fight.
QuoteQuote from: annette on June 04, 2009, 03:45:31 PM
So Brian I am just curious because I always thought that if you got the queen out when splitting, then you can be pretty confident that they will not swarm with that queen.
Me too!
Both the split and the parent hive have been know to swarm after a split, part of the reason can be that the split was too early or too late. Slitting a hive already bent on swarming can still produce a swarm due to not taking the parent queen to the split or the hive making staged queen cells which can happen when a split is make once queen cells are noticed but before they hatch and additional cells are made by either the hive or the split after the breakup.
That is what happened to me. I had a strong hive with queen cells, so I moved the old queen with a bunch of frames to a new box. The parent hive swarmed anyway. The swarm settled in 3 different clusters. I put each cluster in a seperate box. 10 days later each of these swarms had a laying queen. I had planned on producing some surplus honey, but the bees had plans of producing surplus bees.
Brian's advice of puting a frame of eggs and young larvae back into the parent hive is a good plan. If the hive is queenless, they will have started queen cells on the new larvae by the next day.
OK, so we are talking about the parent hive swarming and I already knew about this.
My question was about the split. Can the new split still swarm if the old parent queen is in there?
Quote from: annette on June 05, 2009, 12:15:33 PM
OK, so we are talking about the parent hive swarming and I already knew about this.
My question was about the split. Can the new split still swarm if the old parent queen is in there?
What part of this doesn't answer your question:
QuoteBoth the split and the parent hive have been know to swarm after a split
"Slitting a hive already bent on swarming can still produce a swarm due to not taking the parent queen to the split or the hive making staged queen cells which can happen when a split is make once queen cells are noticed but before they hatch and additional cells are made by either the hive or the split after the breakup"
I am sorry Brian, I was reading what you said as quoted above. I think I am just get confused already.
OK so my understanding is, whether or not they take the parent queen, they can still swarm.
Thanks
Annette