Most know I caught a swarm and that I have had a few questions about it :-) Most also know I did my first inspection today on it since it was hived (7 days ago). I did not use any smoke as I didn't want to cause any more interference with them than necessary and give them any reason to think they made a bad choice by sticking around in my apiary :-)
The hive was great! There were 5 frames of bees in this swarm and none bothered me, no one got upset, I was able to inspect them w/nothing what-so-ever, no smoke, no sugar water, no veil, no gloves, nothing. They are just as nice as the nicest Italian bees in my apiary.
Is this because they are still setting up shop (4 1/2-5 frames were drawn out w/comb, honey, pollen, eggs, larva) or is this what I can expect from this hive from here on out?
Jeremy
You may get a wide range of views on this question, but generally it seems that the larger the hive numbers, the more tendency they have for agression, and the later in the bee season, the more tendency for agression also. I would personally be surprised if you see any signs of that this year, but maybe next, and maybe never. It's really difficult to say with any certainty.
You should always use smoke and a veil. The bees can change temperament faster than a woman. You may be in there for 10 minutes or more when suddenly they hit you with 50 plus stings in a matter of seconds. Until you know how your anatomy reacts to multiple stings, you should never leave yourself open to that possibility.
Quote from: iddee on June 18, 2009, 11:04:57 PM
You should always use smoke and a veil. The bees can change temperament faster than a woman.
:-P
I see you've had some old cranky lady bees. :-D
Quote from: iddee on June 18, 2009, 11:04:57 PM
You should always use smoke and a veil. The bees can change temperament faster than a woman. You may be in there for 10 minutes or more when suddenly they hit you with 50 plus stings in a matter of seconds. Until you know how your anatomy reacts to multiple stings, you should never leave yourself open to that possibility.
This good advice, a hive can change temperament daily. Many things can contribute - weather, available forage, queen presence, aggravation from animals or humans just to name a few.
As a rule, swarms a generally very gentle to start with but sooner or later, they will bite the hand that feeds them.
Steve
QuoteThe bees can change temperament faster than a woman
really?....you must be hanging around a bunch of middle age women. you sound like my husband! :evil:
veil for sure. you take a sting in the eyeball or airway, you'll be texting us from the ER.
swarms tend to be like packages. very often they are gentle in the beginning. they are busy building a home and have no real stores to protect. as iddee so eloquently put it, that can change quickly.
Yep...they will get strong and decide THEY are running the show and won't let you push them around anymore!! :-D I rarely use a veil but I ALWAYS use smoke! This quote sums up my philosophy "When I put on a veil, I am putting up a barrier between the bees and myself, and once I have separated myself behind this protective wall it easy to get lazy and forget to show respect for the little ladies with whom I am working." Natural Beekeeping, Ross Conrad
Quote from: kathyp on June 18, 2009, 11:30:09 PM
QuoteThe bees can change temperament faster than a woman
really?....you must be hanging around a bunch of middle age women. you sound like my husband! :evil:
Mine too. :-D
Yes, they can change quickly, but my bees have been cranky from day one, and I've never worked them without full gear. Even when I had "gentle" bees, I suited up. Better safe than sorry.
Not only should we smoke our bees for the reasons described but it is irresponsible on the beekeeper's part not to. You get stung and what happens? Not to you, to the bees, what happens to those bees that lose their stingers?
They die.
Use smoke or kill bees unnecessarily, its your choice.
...JP
Quote from: JP on June 19, 2009, 01:05:05 AM
Not only should we smoke our bees for the reasons described but it is irresponsible on the beekeeper's part not to. You get stung and what happens? Not to you, to the bees, what happens to those bees that lose their stingers?
They die.
Use smoke or kill bees unnecessarily, its your choice.
JP... I've not been stung while doing an inspection yet (well, I did smash one bee accidentally w/my pointer finger against a frame, but smoke wouldn't have helped that sting). Now, I'm a new beek. I've only been keeping bees since Apr 20th, however, I have done weekly inspections on 6 hives. So, that's 54 inspections so far.
My largest hive is 8 frames full in the bottom deep, 10 frames full in the upper deep and 1/2 full in a medium. I've not been attacked by it yet. Can I expect this to change?
I'm just a new beek learning the way, just asking questions.
Jeremy
Jeremy, bee's temperments can change with the weather, pressure and wind. Giving them a light puff in the entrance and across the frames once the top cover is cracked is just a nice little insurance policy and everyone stays happy.
...JP
>>>>My largest hive is 8 frames full in the bottom deep, 10 frames full in the upper deep and 1/2 full in a medium. I've not been attacked by it yet. Can I expect this to change?<<<<
Jeremy, in the 1960's there were no speed limits in Germany. I have driven many miles in excess of 120 miles per hour. Many of them while drunk.
Now look at the two statements above. Were we smart, or lucky???
USE SMOKE !
Quote from: iddee on June 19, 2009, 10:43:08 AM
>>>>My largest hive is 8 frames full in the bottom deep, 10 frames full in the upper deep and 1/2 full in a medium. I've not been attacked by it yet. Can I expect this to change?<<<<
Jeremy, in the 1960's there were no speed limits in Germany. I have driven many miles in excess of 120 miles per hour. Many of them while drunk.
Now look at the two statements above. Were we smart, or lucky???
USE SMOKE !
Maybe we need to change our lines then when we speak to potential beeks. I can not tell you how many times I was told and with such emphasis that honey bees are docile, you're not going to die, they don't attack you, etc... At seminars, from other beeks, in books, on introductions on the web... are we lying to new beeks?
Jeremy
no, what we are telling them is true. it's also true that riding my very gentle mare is pretty safe. i still wear a helmet when i ride. :-) i drive my car and wear a seatbelt.
jp and iddee use smoke more often than i do. they probably do things that rile the bees up more often than i, and they live in area with they have to worry about AHB. even though i don't always do as they do, they are correct. if you smoke, you reduce bee loss and greatly cut the chances of having angry bees to contend with.
i always use my jacket (with hood) when i go to the bees, even for a very quick check. i know that an airway sting or eyeball sting can land my in the hospital and i have better things to do. i also swell like crazy when i get stung, so i wear gloves. many do not.
we do a disservice to new beekeepers when we try to make them feel guilty about taking precautions. even on this board, i have seen people instructed that no protection is the way to go. that is foolish. it's kind of like the natural childbirth days. if you were not screaming or strangling your husband, you were not experiencing child birth as nature intended. BS
Quote from: kathyp on June 19, 2009, 11:40:11 AM
it's kind of like the natural childbirth days. if you were not screaming or strangling your husband, you were not experiencing child birth as nature intended. BS
He he, we've had our first three children at home, the last one in the hospital due to some low heart beat readings during regular checkups (which has turned out to be no issue).
Jeremy
A first year hive (small hive) is usually docile. When you get to August and the dearth is on around hear or you get into next July with a boomer hive with 2 or 3 supers on trust me you will want your smoker and veil! :evil:
Quote from: jdpro5010 on June 19, 2009, 03:41:32 PM
a first year hive (small hive) is usually docile. When you get to August and the dearth is on around hear or you get into next July with a boomer hive with 2 or 3 supers on trust me you will want your smoker and veil! :evil:
I've heard this a few times now since this thread has started (here and on a thread about smoking) and this makes sense, however it's the first time I'm ever hearing it :-) When I was a potential beek, I thought that honey bees were so gentle I'd invite them in my kitchen for breakfast to help me finish my Wheaties topped w/honey, and afterward catch a good movie before they went out to work for the day.
I think it would be better, since this seems to be the truth, that we're (new beeks) that the temperament of bees is not bad enough to cause you to not keep them but bad enough that you want protection when working them. That seems to be the more honest truth.
Jeremy
Jeremy, I am known for doing removals without so much as a shirt on. I do not begin a removal that way. I check the bee's mood before removing my protective gear.
a swarm is much gentler than a hive, especially during a removal. Below is a swarm that gave me between 150 and 200 stings, mostly on the face and neck, before I put the gear on. You can see how they were after I dressed. I am just trying to prevent the same from happening to you or another newbee. Most newbees could not survive that many stings in a period of a few seconds.
Remember, this was a swarm, not an established hive.
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/Cold%20swarm/5ccd2277.jpg)
Bees are wild creatures that we trick into living in our boxes. Their temperament changes sometimes based on the size of the colony, sometimes on if there is a flow or not, and sometimes for no apparent reason. Today I sat at my hives and was totally ignored, yesterday some of the ladies took offence to me being there and let me know it. Both days where sunny and warm and there is a glorious flow on here right now. That is beekeeping.
P.S. Of my 4 kids only the first was born in a hospital....midwives are the best (when they get there in time)!! :-D
Quote from: jeremy_c on June 19, 2009, 06:08:55 PM
I thought that honey bees were so gentle I'd invite them in my kitchen for breakfast to help me finish my Wheaties topped w/honey, and afterward catch a good movie before they went out to work for the day.
Thats good. :-D
I think that generally, first year hives, if they have come from gentle stock and have a queen bred for gentleness, will be pretty docile. My limited experience is that in the second year, you may start to see more agressiveness. I hear beeks talk often about not needing to wear gear. In my case, that has never been true, especially with my "feral" hive. I sincerely believe that bees left in the wild would be much more agressive than what we hear and read about on beekeeping forums.
My mentor was an elderly man who was a beekeeper for about 60 years (now retired after having a stroke and advancing age). Queen rearing was his specialty, and he had lots of practical experience. I never saw him work his bees without suiting up.
Yall talk about suiting up? I am new at this as I just caught my first swarm this year. When I got them they were docile. Put them in a cardboard box for two days before i found an ole brood box to put them in then moved them into that and bought new boxes from Dadant. When I put them in the hive I did wear a pair of leather gloves. Just kinda swept them onto the top of the hive and they melted right into it. No veil or nothing. after a week I looked at them and accidently dropped a frame. Docile to deamons right now. Now I am in the market for a veil! Do I realy need a full suit? Could I just wear heavy cloths and a veil and gloves? Or is a white suit better? Thanks Harv
A suit or jacket makes it easy but yes you can just wear a pair of jeans and a long sleve shirt.
you can buy a jacket with a hood type veil. that is my choice. until i started doing cutouts, i wore just the veil and long sleeve shirt and jeans. after a couple of angry bees found their way under the veil, i went to the jacket with attached hood. much more secure!!
I agree with Kathy. Here is the one I have.
https://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=723
Idee, that looks like something that I could use. So far so good but probably pressing my luck and I have not tried to take anything away so far. Not all that epensive either for what I would get out of it. Thanks
A hives temperment can depend on a lot of different things:
1. Weather conditions.
2. Time of day.
3. Development stage of the hive.
4. Defensiveness against robbing activity.
5. Stores to defend, starts in July through fall.
6. Odors foriegn to the bees, bananas, coca-cola, liquor, etc.
7. And a hundred other things.