Because of weather(as well as other factors I'm sure) my hives are all not building up like I would've expected. 1 Russian, 1 Caucasian, 1 Russian/Carnie cross, and 1 swarm that looks to be of Carnie origin. Ignoring the swarm as they are still a crap shoot at this point, The other three are just now filling out their first deep(10 frame). I just put a medium on the Caucasians, the Russians got a medium two weeks ago which they haven't touched yet(they only had the deep 60% utilized but I didn't want to risk crowding them down if they decided to take off). I had originally planned on going into winter with a deep and two mediums, but have serious doubts if any of them will do that well.
So my question is with the typically smaller cluster that Russians/Caucasian/Carnies are known for does it seems reasonable that a smaller hive would be ok, maybe even better for them. Less volume to protect and maybe an easier time regulating hive conditions since it better matches cluster size. A smaller cluster should need less stores to make it through also. Have any of you in Northern climates found this to be true or not? All of the local beeks that I've seen use two deeps, but then again they almost all have Italians. Most of the ones I've spoken with don't like Carnies, haven't tried Russians, and only vaguely remember what Caucasians were like.
All the hives seems to have lots of uncapped honey/curing nectar so I don't think they'll have trouble packing enough stores away. They just aren't(or aren't able)to raise a lot of brood and aren't drawing a whole bunch of new comb out either.
Any experiences or thoughts?
Quote from: fermentedhiker on July 19, 2009, 11:23:36 AM
I just put a medium on the Caucasians, the Russians got a medium two weeks ago which they haven't touched yet(they only had the deep 60% utilized but I didn't want to risk crowding them down if they decided to take off). I had originally planned on going into winter with a deep and two mediums, but have serious doubts if any of them will do that well.
The advantage of having all the same size is pulling up a frame from the bottom into the 2nd box. I run into the same problem and am working on phasing out my deeps. I think that you did the right thing by giving them some space this time of year.
Quote from: fermentedhiker on July 19, 2009, 11:23:36 AM
All the hives seems to have lots of uncapped honey/curing nectar so I don't think they'll have trouble packing enough stores away. They just aren't(or aren't able)to raise a lot of brood and aren't drawing a whole bunch of new comb out either.
Any experiences or thoughts?
Sumac is just ending, and milkweed is in bloom now. Goldenrod hasn't started yet, but the plants look good. We still have a potential of lots of stores. I don't have any boxes of drawn comb to add either.
My Carniolans started from a swarm on June 5 made it through last winter without any supplemental feeding.
I have noticed that this year, the bees are gathering nectar between rain showers and even working in the light rain!
I'd wait until August and see what they've done and make my decision at that time.
Quote from: fermentedhiker on July 19, 2009, 11:23:36 AM
So my question is with the typically smaller cluster that Russians/Caucasian/Carnies are known for does it seems reasonable that a smaller hive would be ok, maybe even better for them. Less volume to protect and maybe an easier time regulating hive conditions since it better matches cluster size. a smaller cluster should need less stores to make it through also. Have any of you in Northern climates found this to be true or not?
My hives are all from feral survivor stock, but many have small winter clusters. I know the saying is "cold doesn't kill bee", but I can tell you warmth sure does make them survive better :-P. I've had many single deeps make it thru the winter without issue. I do use polystyrene hives which greatly reduces the amount of stores they use. Also, a little supplemental heat helps a lot during those extreme cold periods. Could be the difference between starving and being able to move to more stores.
I tend to agree with you on less is more when it comes to volume, not so much for protecting, but more for temperature management. I winter 5 frame polystyrene nuc as well.
rob...
This has been the big question for me as well, I have been debating on combining one of my smaller colonies with a larger one for the winter or taking the risk and see how they do.
Its hard to tell where the cutoff on size should be when making these decisions.
Quote from: Natalie on July 20, 2009, 09:11:49 AM
This has been the big question for me as well, I have been debating on combining one of my smaller colonies with a larger one for the winter or taking the risk and see how they do.
I've debated this question many of times myself. But my personal decision is that combining is just giving up a colony from the start. You loose a queen and have another hive pick up a few bees. I guess you can debate with yourself if two weak hives combined would stand a better chance, or the cost of feeding a weak hive, but in general I roll the dice ;)
Hello there,
I am a newbie pretty much, only been doing this for 3 years on my own since my dad passed away. So I am learning as i go and trying to remember all he taught me. BUT this year we have had a VERY VERY wet season...seems they began when the weather was great filling supers like crazy, and the hive body frames too, then when we got a barrage of rain for days and then led into weeks of on and off rain, it seems when we went to rob them that the supers weren't as complete as they should have been. BUT they are certainly storing it BIG TIME in their hive (not enough to get honey bound but loads more than the supers, which i know they will need coming into winter) but i wonder if the weather (rain and chilly) has something to do with the amount of honey found in the supers, by this time lastyear we already had over 300lbs of honey. Does anyone know if weather is a factor in the filling/capping of supers? they are pretty much full but not capped completely. Also I wonder does the intense filling of the hive body frames mean that there will be a harsh winter? I wonder for i know that animals prepare far in advance to humans and just curious as to if this was a sign.
We usually have rather cold and bitter winters here and we do not need to feed until around feb or march most years. But last year we had a very very warm January and we were able to bring hive frames we had them pull out last year and fill that were extra for feeding back to them if it came to needing them. I am NOT a fan of the bee candy due to the cornsyrup....but anyway it was very successful. They loved getting their honey back and it sustained 2 new hives that were late swarms!!!!!!!!!!!! We didn't combine any hives whatsoever this way and it allowed us to have yet another box this spring to pull honey from!
I don't know if this helps any but curious as to the questions i asked concerning capping and harsh winter on the horizon. We have ours in an area that has loads of windbreaks and reduce down to 2 hive bodies where they work their way upwards during the winter and on warm days venture to the outer edges to get honey from the frames but when cold seems they stayed in their broodcluster and just were content to eat what was close...we also addedthose new frames in January toward the center of the hive body in order to assure that they wouldn't need to go to the outer edges. We do not wrap our hives in anything either...do most of you?????just curious...and sorry if i was no help to the question posted...but maybe something will help i put on here....also we have Italian bees mostly but others too at another lot. Any ideas? thanks and hope i helped somehow........but as i say i'm still learning too!! :)
atthelake22
Thanks for the replies. With some warm weather here I'll cling to hope that they'll build up to full size but we'll see how it goes. My plan is to keep the hive sized for them so if they don't build up I'll add cane sugar above the cluster with a shim and they nature take it's course.
Robo, I'm curious how you manage to get nucs throughout the winter. Are your winters mild enough to allow you to open the hives to add feed throughout? I know last winter it never got warm enough to open the hive for four months straight.
Quote from: fermentedhiker on July 20, 2009, 10:30:24 PM
Robo, I'm curious how you manage to get nucs throughout the winter. Are your winters mild enough to allow you to open the hives to add feed throughout? I know last winter it never got warm enough to open the hive for four months straight.
I give them each a sugar frame -> http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/emergency-feeding/
I also keep them on a hill and they pretty much stay buried under the snow with only the front side (entrance) exposed.
(http://www.bushkillfarms.com/gallery2/d/930-2/IMG_1954.jpg)
(http://www.bushkillfarms.com/gallery2/d/933-2/IMG_1959.jpg)
(http://www.bushkillfarms.com/gallery2/d/942-2/IMG_1965.jpg)
Thanks Robo, I now remember reading that info on your site. I actually tried to make some sugar frames early this year while it was still winter. Made the mistake of turning my back on the stove for a couple of minutes and it decided to boil over(erupt is a more appropriate term). Do you have any idea the kind of devastation a sugar syrup volcano does to a kitchen. I had to clean the kitchen with a putty knife(like you use for mudding sheetrock) before I could even begin to start cleaning up. I'll have to look into giving it another try this fall..........OUTDOORS that is.
Do the bees need water to consume dry sugar or sugar candy during the winter? If they do, how do they get the water during the cold spells?
I wouled like some one to define what a wet season is? i live in the only Rain forest in the lower 48 states now is 15 inches of rain wet? or is 110 inches of rain wet? please clue me in on what a wet season is.
Quote from: Robo on July 20, 2009, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: Natalie on July 20, 2009, 09:11:49 AM
This has been the big question for me as well, I have been debating on combining one of my smaller colonies with a larger one for the winter or taking the risk and see how they do.
I've debated this question many of times myself. But my personal decision is that combining is just giving up a colony from the start. You loose a queen and have another hive pick up a few bees. I guess you can debate with yourself if two weak hives combined would stand a better chance, or the cost of feeding a weak hive, but in general I roll the dice ;)
I know that 'good beekeepers take their losses in fall, not the spring' - but I can't help but agree with Robo. My hives are lagging this year, either having not quite yet filled their first deep or just starting their second (mostly because of our cold spring and summer). I know that I should combine the weakest ones, but I have a hard time bringing myself to do it. I requeened them (late June in the hopes that new queens would stimulate production) and most of them have new queens that are either doing much better, or are of a type that I want to see try to make it through winter. In another month or so, I will evaluate them again and go through the same old argument - 'combine or don't combine'. I usually don't combine, and I probably have lost hives because of it - but I just can't seem to give up the hive and the queen that easily (I suppose that hope springs eternal!).
Quote from: SawBee on July 22, 2009, 12:17:35 AM
Do the bees need water to consume dry sugar or sugar candy during the winter? If they do, how do they get the water during the cold spells?
Yes, but the hive gets plenty of moisture from consuming honey. If I don't put a drain hole in the bottom of my polystyrene nucs, they will easily collect an inch of water in the bottom from condensation, and that is without feeding any syrup.