I hear a lot of you guys talking about feeding HFCS so I checked it out on the net and I find that most of our corn syrup comes from China. I think I will stick to good old sugar and not let them Chinese poison my bees. They do spray pesticides everywhere over there because of no restrictions. Then I find out almost everything you buy off the grocery shelf has it. Hmmmmm. Wonder where it all come from. Anybody else have any say on this.
i think you're way off:
1) america is the world's largest exporter of corn
2) hfcs is only useful because it's cheaper than sugar. still cheaper after importing and transportation? unlikely.
3) many many groups would be up in arms about this - farming lobby, food/consumer safety groups, etc.
the whole thing makes no sense.
Can you throw out any validated sources about HFCS being mostly from China ?
Pretty hard for me to believe, with ADM & Cargill & ConAgra plants not that far from here.
Take some info. on inter-net forums with a grain or two of salt !
Bee-Bop
I took a quick look on the net and couldn't find any mention of HFCS being made in China. I did read that a lot of people think it's 'bad'. I've never used it for my bees. Right now I'm too smal to go to the trouble.
There might be more than a grain of truth to this product coming from China. China buys a lot of corn from the US....and I mean a LOT of corn. The costs for them to process the corn and other things is much less in China than in the US, so they can produce the same products (in many cases) for less money (even with the added costs of importing, etc.,) than what it costs for us to produce the same here in the US.
(There was a problem that I know about personally, many years ago with Nestle Foods buying some powdered eggs from China and they found rodent hair in the bags! Not just a small amount, but a major percentage of the eggs was nothing but rodent hair! The egg powder was destroyed and not used....and they never got any more ingredients from China again.)
The point is, that it costs less to import from China in many cases and this must not be dismissed as being a logical reason alone for thinking that just because a large company like ADM is down the road, that they will sell products cheaper..
There are many US industries that import products from China....as the cost is less than what it costs for the same US produced procducts. Drugs, plastics, food products are all using imported ingredients from China.....even the pet food industry suffered major losses when the pet foods contained toxins found in imported (from China) ingredients.
I DO NOT use anything imported from China myself if I can help it. Check the labels and decide what you want to feed your bees...my bees, animals and livestock are not getting anything that I would not eat myself.
Brenda
I watch the tv station about China BIZ because in my travels it's one of the countries (,except for then British controlled Hong Kong) that I missed seeing in my travels. They have compeletly destroyed the bees with chemicals. In doing so they showed that the locals have to hand pollenate fruit trees with a feather on a stick. I found this of much interest ,we in America should take great notice .
That brings up another question. If they have killed off their bees and now hand pollinate, how do they export hundreds, maybe thousands, of tons of honey?
It sounds like our media is on it's one sided reporting. I just don't know which side.
And then there's this: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/08/090826110118.htm
-Diggity
Good point Iddee,it could be a regional bee loss . China has vast amounts of territory .
Quote from: iddee on August 28, 2009, 12:51:07 PM
That brings up another question. If they have killed off their bees and now hand pollinate, how do they export hundreds, maybe thousands, of tons of honey?
It sounds like our media is on it's one sided reporting. I just don't know which side.
China is a big country! In certain highly industrialized areas and places where the pesticides have been overused, the bees are gone....zip....not to be found. However, there are other areas of the country where there are large apiaries.....sp they do have honey bees and thus produce honey for export.
Now for the down side, as a large amount of the honey that has been eported from China, when tested, it is found that it is not all 'pure honey'. Much of the honey content tested out to be from corn products....artificial honey.
I am not out to be bashing China, or any other country for that matter, but when any country continues to export products to my own home country that are not what they are supposed to be, or that will harm either myself, my family or my livestock/pets....then I do some major research. Like I said before....read those labels and do not believe all that you read....search for tests on anything imported.
Brenda
Quote from: jimmy on August 28, 2009, 12:20:45 PM
I watch the tv station about China BIZ because in my travels it's one of the countries (,except for then British controlled Hong Kong) that I missed seeing in my travels. They have compeletly destroyed the bees with chemicals. In doing so they showed that the locals have to hand pollenate fruit trees with a feather on a stick. I found this of much interest ,we in America should take great notice .
That is not all over China, it was in one area. I saw that documentary also. Oops!! Just read the whole thread and you all have mentioned this already.
The origanal poster say's;
" HFCS mostly China made "
Can I see some valid information on this ?
Being from the old school:
" MOSTLY " was more than half, with the inference of " ALL MOST ALL "
I've been wrong before !
Bee-Bop
Quote from: Rebel Rose Apiary on August 28, 2009, 12:05:42 PM
I DO NOT use anything imported from China myself if I can help it. Check the labels and decide what you want to feed your bees...my bees, animals and livestock are not getting anything that I would not eat myself.
Brenda
Brenda, how do you stay away from made in China products? I have walked the aisles of Home Depot for example and can scarcely find anything not made in China. Or do you mean food products? I recently saw garlic bunches from China at the local vegetable stand and asked the owner about it and he said it was half the price of US garlic. Can you imagine, even with shipping halfway around the world? I fear this could be a trend and for one want no part of food from China. If people don't buy it they won't have a market here.
Quote from: tlynn on August 28, 2009, 06:32:04 PM
If people don't buy it they won't have a market here.
If we know what is good for us, we will continue buying from China.............or they won't loan us any more money! :)
Steve
It seems most everything comes from China now but I will go without something if I cannot find it made here.
I had the same issue with garlic at our corner fruit stand, I asked about it and the girl there actually said that all garlic comes from China. I said is that what you really believe? Did you know that we have plenty of garlic growers in America and the owner is probably just getting it cheaper from China and she said no it all comes from China.
I never bought garlic again, choosing instead to plant some and I now grow my own.
I went that whole year without garlic while waiting for mine to produce.
I stopped buying apple juice a long time ago because I was having trouble finding any made that was NOT from China.
We have all these apple growers here and they cannot compete with China.
I can live without garlic and apple juice. The truth is that there are many, many things that we all can live without rather than buy from China.
I would rather pay twice the money for something on the shelf that is made here in America than the cheaper and questionable product sitting next to it.
I personally would avoid any and all food from that Country and don't see why we are supporting them rather than our own Coutnry.
Well, glad to hear from all you guys and gals on this subject. And yes I did more inquiry on this subject. I found that I didnt look quite deep enough and probably shouldnt have said mostly. I didnt find anything saying that a good amount doesnt come from there, and there were some good replies about the harmful stuff in corn syrup. But it was good to hear all the different thoughts on the subject. I thank all of you. Thanks Harold
They don't have enough land to grow corn. They are crowded and that is why rice is there number one crop. They more than likely are in the top three importers of corn. Im guessing they maybe are the largest importer of corn syrup.
give it up folks, the chinese have taken this country and never fired a shot. ya wanta know who's fault it is? next time you're in wal-mart look in one of their cheap chinese mirrors.
tlynn,
The garlic capitol of the world used to be Gilroy, California! You can drive within 20 miles of the place and smell the garlic! The Garlic Festival is great!
Like I stated before, IF we read the labels, then we are forewarned.....be it with food products, petfoods, bee feed/supplies, or the clothes we wear on our backs.....how many of us noticed that the bee suits, etc. are made in China? I wear a jacket that is made in Argentina....which to me is somewhat better than Chinese imports.
Even though I do try and watch carefully as to where I buy my suplies, etc. from, I accidently bought some 'cheap' priced foundation off of ebay.....that was from China....the shipping info said that it was from the US, but it was shipped to me directly from China! The waxed foundation had a chemical smell and the bees would not touch it, so I tossed it out. After two days of being in an open box (in the trash) the foundation was turned black~with a sickening smelling glue substance on it....nothing like wax at all....I wonder what would have happened if I had put the foundation into some of my hives?
Brenda
Quote from: Natalie on August 28, 2009, 11:32:29 PM
It seems most everything comes from China now but I will go without something if I cannot find it made here.
I had the same issue with garlic at our corner fruit stand, I asked about it and the girl there actually said that all garlic comes from China. I said is that what you really believe? Did you know that we have plenty of garlic growers in America and the owner is probably just getting it cheaper from China and she said no it all comes from China.
I never bought garlic again, choosing instead to plant some and I now grow my own.
I went that whole year without garlic while waiting for mine to produce.
I stopped buying apple juice a long time ago because I was having trouble finding any made that was NOT from China.
We have all these apple growers here and they cannot compete with China.
I can live without garlic and apple juice. The truth is that there are many, many things that we all can live without rather than buy from China.
I would rather pay twice the money for something on the shelf that is made here in America than the cheaper and questionable product sitting next to it.
I personally would avoid any and all food from that Country and don't see why we are supporting them rather than our own Coutnry.
Unfortunately the federal Country Of Origin Law (COOL) exempts so many things from the requirement that it's almost impossible to tell where your food has been. Even meat is exempt if it is a component of a processed product or sold in a restaurant. Believe it or not some chicken is raised in the United States, slaughtered, frozen, shipped to China, thawed, processed, re-frozen, shipped back to the U.S. and then sold to consumers who have no way of knowing where it has been or how it was handled.
I wonder how that happened?
It does take diligence to avoid inferior products and to support our own economy and of course there are items that are hidden like you say but its worth the extra effort to at least try and support our own.
This is one of the reasons why I started growing and raising my own food.
I already raise chickens and haven't bought eggs for two years.
The meat thing is why I started buying from the butcher, I just ordered a side of beef from him.
You can bring your own homegrown meat for him to slaughter and package as well and its worth it.
If you don't raise your own beef you can have one of the local farms grow one out for you.
I am a vegetarian myself but some of my family members like to eat it so I go the extra mile so that I know where it came from.
Chicken, turkey and beef is really all they eat anyway for meat, we avoid pork.
I grow alot of vegetables that my family enjoys, we eat them fresh all season and I process them for the year like tomato sauce, bruschetta etc. Garlic stores very well.
This was not a good year for gardening with all the rain we had but we still got a ton of tomatoes and potatoes to process and store and the rest of the vegetables we ate fresh.
I go blueberry and strawberry picking and make a year's worth of jam and freeze gallons of berries for the year.
I go apple picking and process and store them in any way I can for the year. I planted over 100 strawberry plants and they just started producing well this year and the apple and peach trees should be producing within the next two years so there is two less things I will have to buy.
I have a bumper potato crop this year and I have the perfect basement for a root cellar which we set up last year so I have a place to store them.
I just planted my fall garden so hopefully there will be more carrots to put away.
It is possible to know where at least some of your food is coming from if you have even a small area to grow in and a local butcher.
I have to add to your statement about food coming from China . This past week the shrimpers off the coast of Louisiana had to tie up their boats at the docks because the market in the U.S. had been flooded with the shrimp from China. A few years ago the same happened with imported crawfish here along the gulf coast. There has now been some extra tariffs place on the crawfish. I would think the same tariffs will soon apply to shrimp.
As you probably already know some wholesale importers were caught selling imported China honey as local . If I remember the article correctly the fine they received was much less than the money they had already made on the imported honey.
If you are young and can't speak cantonese ,I would be learning fast.
Quote from: Natalie on August 29, 2009, 03:08:18 PM
It is possible to know where at least some of your food is coming from if you have even a small area to grow in and a local butcher.
Or a knife.
I totally agree. One night last week we had a nice chuck roast with potatoes, carrots, onions, garlic and sides of green beans and a fresh salad. I grew all of it except the beef, and my father in law grew that. I help with taking them to be processed and usually do most of the home veterinary work - especially if it involves a shoulder length glove :-P. We're far from self sufficient, but we aren't helpless either.
Sounds like a great meal!!
Jimmy, I will tell you why I stopped buying all fish in the supermarket a long time ago, I wanted scallops but they were all from China.
I didn't buy anything and in fact never bought any seafood from any supermarket again.
We are lucky enough to be able to get fresh fish right off the pier in a nearby town.
One time when I had some firewood delievered we got to talking and it turned out this guy and his family were also fishermen.
We told him how we don't buy the fish in the supermarkets and he said if we wait on the dock for him in the mornings when the boat comes in he will sell us fresh caught fish and much cheaper than the markets charge.
That was a great connection for us to make.
Its true David, you really don't have to be totally self sufficent to make a difference about where you get your food. Just a little helps. I don't exactly own a farm here either but I don't need to buy everything we eat.
Its also a good feeling to be able to take care of yourself and your family in that way.
I never buy frozen processed food so it forces me to try new things, grow new things and be more creative about where I get the food to feed my family.
I really like this thread! It started out a little on the scarey side.....but then again most things do in these days and times. I noticed something about the posters....we all are able to take care of ourselves pretty well without relying on the outside world and (possible dangerous) imported items! :-D
This seems to be a thrend with most of the beekeepers that I have talked with in the past few years. It seems that each and every one of us tries to grow what we eat and keeping the bees near the garden really improves the yields of even a small garden. I keep six hives in the garden year around.
Maybe we should do more in the line of teaching the general comsumers of honey and produce the benfits of buying locally grown/or US grown, etc. produce and honey. Most people seem to be used to the habit of just going to the store and grabbing what all they want off of the shelf and never give it a thought as to where the foods they feed the families and pets originated from.
I just was given some cooking utensils for my birthday a few weeks ago....I used the measuring cups for the first time when I was making some honey sweetened zucchinni bread and pumpkin bread.....the paint they used to mark the sizes of the measuring cups came off on my hands! I checked the box they came in and sure enough, they were from China! I thought about the lead based paint they used on the kid's toys and I am not using the measuring set anymore...it can stay on the shelf for decoration, as I do not want the person who gave me the set mad at me or hurt their feelings.
I am a big fish eater and I love seafood! I cannot stand it that every store sells imported farm raised catfish, imoprted shrimp, etc. I do not buy it.
I think that we need to get the message out to the bee supply companies and to anyone elst for that matter, that we do not want to use or buy imported supplies, etc. If enough of us contacted the supply companies, it would make them take notice...if we keep contacting them, surely they would start offering more US made items.
I am going to start telling the differences of imported supermarket honey and the benefits of LOCAL honey at any talks to shows that I give. I think that even the grade school kids should be told about this. It is never too early to start training our honey buyers and future beekeepers!
Brenda
Quote from: David LaFerney on August 29, 2009, 02:15:41 PM
the federal Country Of Origin Law (COOL) exempts so many things from the requirement that it's almost impossible to tell where your food has been.... I wonder how that happened?
Wiki has a good write-up on COOL that gives a bit of the history and mentions the conflicts of interests.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_of_Origin_Labeling
I have shipped a variety of items internationally, and from my experience – the last mile of shipping costs as much as the rest of the journey. Said differently, the cost of trucking (which is the same cost whether imported or not) is more than the international legs put together. Thus if the added value (processing of the raw product) labor cost difference is significant, the internationally shipped item becomes cheaper than a locally produced item. China wages being significantly lower than the US, then ship corn, and re-import corn syrup is entirely achievable.
Grow your own, or buy from a local producer is of course better yet, but if it needs to be processed, you will more than likely be buying imported items, or paying more for domestically produced.