I removed a colony of bees from a fallen tree a couple weeks ago. Small colony, I only came away with three frames. I put them in a deep with 7 undrawn foundationless frames. I did not get the queen, I think she was killed when the tree was destroyed? They made a new queen, and she is laying.
I checked the box yesterday. I was intending to combine them with another hive, and remove the queen from the existing hive first. I noticed a wax worm, though, in the colony from the tree. In hindsight, maybe I should have put the three frames in a nuc instead.
Would putting them in a nuc box now be a good idea? Should I go ahead and combine them with another hive now, or let them overcome the moth before I do?
Combine them.
and
sorry about the "and". Okay, iddee, I will do that. Thanks!
okay...thought of this as soon as I posted. Can I take the three frames and just put them into an existing hive? I was hoping, since they came from the "wild" to preserve the queen....but beggars can't be choosers. If I remove the queen in an existing hive and drop these bees into it, will that be disaster?
If it were me i would out them in a nuc until they build up. but then i am from a tropical climate, i know nothing of winter conditions
Combine.....they will not have time to build up.
Steve
Sorry, I was still waking up this morning. I would do a newspaper combine and in about 3 days, reduce it down to only drawn frames, but leaving a small amount of "growing room". Not too crowded to add any fall flow that might happen.
Quote from: joker1656 on August 30, 2009, 02:05:02 PM
okay...thought of this as soon as I posted. Can I take the three frames and just put them into an existing hive? I was hoping, since they came from the "wild" to preserve the queen....but beggars can't be choosers. If I remove the queen in an existing hive and drop these bees into it, will that be disaster?
If I understand what you are intending to do this is what I see happening. If you remove the queen from an existing hive and ad the three frames and the wild queen the existing hive will most likely murder the newly introduced queen. newspaper combine would be about the only way to prevent this
Quote from: joker1656 on August 30, 2009, 09:06:22 AM
I removed a colony of bees from a fallen tree a couple weeks ago. Small colony, I only came away with three frames. I put them in a deep with 7 undrawn foundationless frames. I did not get the queen, I think she was killed when the tree was destroyed? They made a new queen, and she is laying.
I checked the box yesterday. I was intending to combine them with another hive, and remove the queen from the existing hive first. I noticed a wax worm, though, in the colony from the tree. In hindsight, maybe I should have put the three frames in a nuc instead.
Would putting them in a nuc box now be a good idea? Should I go ahead and combine them with another hive now, or let them overcome the moth before I do?
I don't combine myself,I look at it as a waste of time.I try to save hives. I would put them in a nuc and feed them and then when it gets full move them back to a hive and feed them though the winter if needed. It will be needed where you live.
>>>>I don't combine myself,I look at it as a waste of time.<<<<
I don't blame you. That is probably the best thing for you to do.
You feed 50 lbs. of sugar water, after mixing it, check the nuc a dozen times during the fall and winter, and "maybe" end with two hives in the spring. The nuc you fed and the one you would have combined it with.
I combine them now, forget them until spring. Then I split them. No 50 lb. of sugar, no mixing, checking, feeding, all winter. Then I end with 2 hives in the spring.
Yep, you have the right idea. My way is just too cheap and boring.
Quote from: iddee on August 31, 2009, 01:26:39 PM
>>>>I don't combine myself,I look at it as a waste of time.<<<<
I don't blame you. That is probably the best thing for you to do.
You feed 50 lbs. of sugar water, after mixing it, check the nuc a dozen times during the fall and winter, and "maybe" end with two hives in the spring. The nuc you fed and the one you would have combined it with.
I combine them now, forget them until spring. Then I split them. No 50 lb. of sugar, no mixing, checking, feeding, all winter. Then I end with 2 hives in the spring.
Yep, you have the right idea. My way is just too cheap and boring.
He didn't say combine it with an other nuc, he said also it had wax moth. Maybe putting wax moth in your good hive to save three only three frames that would be dead in a month and a half ? Don't think so. You work to combine and work to split and buy a queen and feed the split in the spring,different strokes for different folks. I would have two strong hives in the spring flow.
Any hive with 7 empty frames has wax moths. Combining and removing empty frames will do away with the wax moths.
I don't buy queens. A split will raise it's own, and in time to build up without feeding before the flow.
>>>>different strokes for different folks<<<<
YEP!
QuoteI don't combine myself,I look at it as a waste of time.I try to save hives.
if you have a weak hive at this time of the year, and you try to save it, chances are you'll end up with no hive. if you combine, you save the bees and can have a big enough hive to split in the spring. wax moth in a strong hive will be taken care of by the bees.
it would be nice to save the feral queen, but with winter coming, the practical thing to do is save the bees.
he won't have to buy a queen in the spring if he doesn't want to. he can let the split raise it's own. work, money and hive, saved.....hopefully.
I appreciate all of the input. I have a better grasp of what I am going to do, and the best way to do it.
I am going to newspaper combine, and hope for the best.
Thanks again.
Quote from: iddee on August 31, 2009, 02:32:01 PM
Any hive with 7 empty frames has wax moths. Combining and removing empty frames will do away with the wax moths.
I don't buy queens. a split will raise it's own, and in time to build up without feeding before the flow.
>>>>different strokes for different folks<<<<
YEP!
He didn't say the one he was going to combine with had wax moths,he said,
I removed a colony of bees from a fallen tree a couple weeks ago. Small colony, I only came away with three frames. I put them in a deep with 7 undrawn foundationless frames. I did not get the queen, I think she was killed when the tree was destroyed? They made a new queen, and she is laying. I checked the box yesterday. I was intending to combine them with another hive, and remove the queen from the existing hive first. I noticed a wax worm, though, in the colony from the tree. In hindsight, maybe I should have put the three frames in a nuc instead.
So your trying to tell me every time you add a supper,you get wax moths ? NOPE. I would say the three frames he got had wax moths.He said the three frames he caught ,he put it in with 7 frames.Combining the three frames with a strong hive will get rid of wax moths.
Do a split and let them try to raise a queen, you will lose the split unless you keep adding frames of brood and honey and pollen. Lot of work and weakling an other hive.
Different strokes
QuoteDo a split and let them try to raise a queen, you will lose the split unless you keep adding frames of brood and honey and pollen. Lot of work and weakling an other hive.
not so. you have not done any spring splits? they are pretty simple and when you distribute resources, you end up with two strong hive. either they requeen or you requeen them, at the time they are doing their spring build up.
maybe where you live, it is ok to try to save a weak hive at this time of the year. if you live in a place that has real winter, trying to save a weak hive will usually mean losing the whole thing. some people are successful wintering nucs. i can winter single deeps with no problem. i would not attempt to winter a weakened hive.
as i read it, he's looking for the best way to save the bees. combining gives him the best odds. the bees are saved. the other hive has more numbers to winter.
Quote from: iddee on August 31, 2009, 02:32:01 PM
Any hive with 7 empty frames has wax moths. Combining and removing empty frames will do away with the wax moths.
I don't buy queens. a split will raise it's own, and in time to build up without feeding before the flow.
>>>>different strokes for different folks<<<<
YEP!
Your cutting it real close doing a split with only,frames of bees and brood and eggs and honey and no queen cell all ready built. It takes 4-5 weeks to build and get a laying queen.It takes 6 weeks for new eggs to grow and they become Foraging bees,so that gives them 1- 2 weeks to take care of new laid eggs. I would give them a queen cell or two.
Quote from: Joelel on September 01, 2009, 08:12:31 PM
Quote from: iddee on August 31, 2009, 02:32:01 PM
Any hive with 7 empty frames has wax moths. Combining and removing empty frames will do away with the wax moths.
I don't buy queens. a split will raise it's own, and in time to build up without feeding before the flow.
>>>>different strokes for different folks<<<<
YEP!
Your cutting it real close doing a split with only,frames of bees and brood and eggs and honey and no queen cell all ready built. It takes 4-5 weeks to build and get a laying queen.It takes 6 weeks for new eggs to grow and they become Foraging bees,so that gives them 1- 2 weeks to take care of new laid eggs. I would give them a queen cell or two.
You being from down south and giving a northener advice may not work out so well jolel. You probably will never understand the climate factor.
no one is talking about doing a split at this time of the year anyway.
The thing is,anytime you do a split,you do it the best way. You don't make things hard on the bees.You do it to where the hive can build up to a strong hive the fastest. Strong hives have less problems.
There are many ways to do things,but I pride myself in doing things the best way. Easyest for me and the bees.
No splits needed here but if anyone needs split consultation they sure should know where to go.
I'd 5 rack nuc them and feed the daylights out of them. Three frames of brood with some honey and 2 frames of honey should be great for winter. I do it all the time.
Well, sure you do in Alabama. Now let's see you do it in Fort Wayne, Indiana.
BIG DIFFERENCE!