I had two hives that appeared to be doing good a week ago, with a good amount of honey, and appearing to be packing in more. Went to them and found one with about two inches of dead bees in the bottom of the hive, no live bees no pest (moths, larvae, beetles) only what looked like perfectly healthy bees except all dead, and some gnats in the hive, which can be expected, although no excesive smell of death yet. Just a week before I had checked, and thought it looked fine for winter, and appeared to be heavy with winter stores. I found it with about a 2 inch layer of dead bees on the bottom of hive, the bottom deep, and two medium supers were very, very clean, with just a sprinkling of cells with a very thin capp, and appearing to be empty just a very few cells, some (very few) with a little pollen in them, and a lot of cells with an adult bee in them head first, and most all cells empty, and very clean. This hive was located next to (about 2 feet away from) a very active hive which has always been very defensive (I sometimes wonder if it is mixed with africans), to the point I have not been able to manage it as I should have. The hive that died was very docile, and did very good for me the first year, starting out being very weak last spring, and building very good . For my first experience at beekeeping, with two hives, that I thought till last week were doing great, it was a big disapointment. At first I thought I had starved them to death, but then after thinking, when I went in the week before, I thought they were in good shape, and even wondered why all the talk of feeding them, because it appeared they were well prepared for winter. I now am worried about keeping my remaining hive alive, till spring, so I can start splitting it. It appears as if it is very well supplied with honey, do I need to feed this remaining hive, which appears to be well supplied?
I understand what you are saying, but I still think starvation..... ;)
my guess is that the remaining hive is the cause of the death of the other. robbed them out and they starved. the good thing is that the remaining hive should have plenty of stores. in the spring, when they will probably be less defensive, i'd consider requeening that hive and if they are strong, splitting them.
Glad I read your post -- I found the same situation yesterday when I inspected my hives (this is my first year "beeking" and I only have two). The hive which had been most active during the Spring and Summer was empty comb and only a couple of handfuls of bees. No pests were found and only a few dead bees inside the hive. The smaller hive, which had seemed less active, is full of honey and bees!
I plan to try to keep the troubled hive alive through the winter (a friend told me to let it die, but I want to try, even if it is only as a learning experience for me). Any suggestions on the best way to do this would be greatly appreciated!!
Apparently in the southern states robbing is a problem until very late into the fall. Yesterday (fine weather) I had drones flying and I could see a few robber bees investigating any cracks where they could detect hive smell.
I'm just in my first year and don't know much, but since I restricted my entrances down to 3/8 X 1" I stopped having a problem with robbing - still a bit of it going on, but it isn't a problem. I'm convinced that without that measure my weaker hive would have been robbed out as it was being targeted every day.
I'm just about convinced that in our region entrances should be as small as possible all the time.
Thanks for the tip on reducing entrance size.....I have a couple of reducer bars, so after I "feed up" my weaker hive, I will put one in (the feeder effectively reduces the entrance as long as it's in place). Next year, I will plan on using the reducers more often.
i've just discovered the very same thing in what had been my most productive hive :(
there are some remaining bees w/remaining honey and pollen stores. no fresh brood. no eggs. can't find a queen. lots of pathetic, barely-moving bees + dead bees outside the hive. no sign of disease, wax moths or anything else in the hive. just dead.
should i try to revive the remaining bees of this hive by feeding them sugar water or just consider this hive a loss? btw, the hive next to it really seems to have come to life - sigh - should i assume THEY robbed the now-dying hive?
Quote from: TwoBigCats on November 06, 2009, 05:33:24 PM
i've just discovered the very same thing in what had been my most productive hive :(
there are some remaining bees w/remaining honey and pollen stores. no fresh brood. no eggs. can't find a queen. lots of pathetic, barely-moving bees + dead bees outside the hive. no sign of disease, wax moths or anything else in the hive. just dead.
should i try to revive the remaining bees of this hive by feeding them sugar water or just consider this hive a loss? btw, the hive next to it really seems to have come to life - sigh - should i assume THEY robbed the now-dying hive?
If your signs are like the original poster indicated....."Two inches of dead bees at the bottom, bees head first in the cells"....than No! I would not think robbing at all. To think there was that many bees not capable of defending themselves, then all dying on the bottom board and lots "head first in cells" tells me of a classic case of eating themselves to death.
Now if you had a pile of cappings on the bottom board, and dead bees all around the front of the hive, then I might start thinking robbing.
There is no way I could think that a well populated hive simply got robbed out, then all died in the numbers indicated,...two inches on the bottom board and many more head first in the cells, then simply died of starvation after the fact.....no way.
Many things go into whether a hive starves or not. Timing of too much brood, wrong makeup of bees, etc. I find starved hives almost all through late summer and fall. I had 5 hives and 15 nucs the first week of September alone, that starved. While hives and nucs in the same yard were storing away extra. Why the big difference? Hard to say. But it does happen.
Quote from: BjornBee on November 06, 2009, 06:13:08 PM
Quote from: TwoBigCats on November 06, 2009, 05:33:24 PM
i've just discovered the very same thing in what had been my most productive hive :(
there are some remaining bees w/remaining honey and pollen stores. no fresh brood. no eggs. can't find a queen. lots of pathetic, barely-moving bees + dead bees outside the hive. no sign of disease, wax moths or anything else in the hive. just dead.
should i try to revive the remaining bees of this hive by feeding them sugar water or just consider this hive a loss? btw, the hive next to it really seems to have come to life - sigh - should i assume THEY robbed the now-dying hive?
If your signs are like the original poster indicated....."Two inches of dead bees at the bottom, bees head first in the cells"....than No! I would not think robbing at all. To think there was that many bees not capable of defending themselves, then all dying on the bottom board and lots "head first in cells" tells me of a classic case of eating themselves to death.
Now if you had a pile of cappings on the bottom board, and dead bees all around the front of the hive, then I might start thinking robbing.
There is no way I could think that a well populated hive simply got robbed out, then all died in the numbers indicated,...two inches on the bottom board and many more head first in the cells, then simply died of starvation after the fact.....no way.
Many things go into whether a hive starves or not. Timing of too much brood, wrong makeup of bees, etc. I find starved hives almost all through late summer and fall. I had 5 hives and 15 nucs the first week of September alone, that starved. While hives and nucs in the same yard were storing away extra. Why the big difference? Hard to say. But it does happen.
thx very much, bjorn.
i went back out to the hive, went through the supes and then removed them from the bottom board. i found lots of chewed wax on the bottom board. (i don't have inches of dead bees, just many more than i've ever seen around any of my hives before; ditto inside the hive - never seen a dead bee in there until today.)
am i right in thinking i should remove and freeze the frames from this hive until spring?
thx again for the feedback, much appreciated.
hal