Hey I am just getting into beekeeping and am building some hives, frames, etc and working on getting all the supplies. I need to place my order for bees this weekend. Should I get Italian or Russian and what makes one better than the other? Also, when just starting up how many nucs should I purchase? I was planning on getting two. Your comments are welcome.
Thanks Greg Watkevich
I would recommend these two links from NC state:
types of honey bees and their traits (http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/PDF%20files/1.12.pdf)
comparison of russian to italian (http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/PDF%20files/2.16.pdf)
So to answer you.... Yes.
I would get 1 or two of each and see which you like more, then after a few years order 2 or three queens of the type you like and pinch the existing ones you dont.... I want to try russian, carniolian and italian. I am getting 2 italian mutts this spring and eventually 2 carni or 2 russian and then 2 of the other.
Thanks for the link to the comparison of the Italian and Russian bees. I think I like the idea of italians based on the high brooding all summer. On the otherhand, I am a little concerned about the Italian strain being more susceptable to disease, mites, etc. Is it true that brood size with Italians can get out of hand that it is a problem going into the winter and cause starvation?
Thanks Greg Watkevich
You might want to let us know where you are. There is a big difference in overwintering in Florida vs Maine.
If you get your Italian from a reputible breeder, you should not have that many issues. Especially if the person uses IPM and selects for strong genetics.
As far as starvation goes, if you watch them and dont take too much honey off of them, you should have minimal feeding in an average year.
I forgot to add this link wikipedia honey bee types (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Beekeeping/Honey_Bee_Races#Carniolan_Honey_Bee)
I would recommend a newbie to keep Italian bees for 2 to 5 years before getting Russian bees.
You might want to let us know where you are it will help ?
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
As others have mentioned, you didn't state your location and that's an important consideration. I also believe that buying bees raised locally is more important than a particular type of bees. "Local survivor stock" is what you should look for.
I would agree with Jim................Italians are great for newbees. If you live in a colder climate, Russians might be advantageous. But I would get a few bee seasons behind me before expanding with Russians.
I am located in Massachusetts. Why would you suggest starting with the Italians and then switching over to Russians? Should I just start out with Russians? I am getting the bees from Georgia. Your comments are welcome.
Greg Watkevich
Do to my current location, what holds me back from Russians is they're known to be on the mean side. Everything else about them is a good in my eyes. Italians are known to be gentle which great to start with.
Do Italians typically survive the winter in New England or should I look at another bee specie?
Greg Watkevich
What I would do is look around at what other beekeepers have in the area you're in. Good Hybrid and mutt Italians are everywhere. Carniolans might be a line to look at. I wouldn't rule out Russians though I'd ask about temperament and hygiene on any. It depends on what you want.
Worcester County Beekeepers Association and some other resources (http://www.honeybeeclub.org/worcester%20county%20beekeepers%20-%20links.htm)
I like local survivor stock or mutts been keeping bees in Athol MA. for 52 years
this may help you
http://www.massbee.org/beeschools.shtml (http://www.massbee.org/beeschools.shtml)
http://www.massbee.org/ (http://www.massbee.org/)
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Quote from: wd on January 22, 2010, 07:08:11 PM
Do to my current location, what holds me back from Russians is they're known to be on the mean side. Everything else about them is a good in my eyes. Italians are known to be gentle which great to start with. Quote
My son and I use all Russians and have found them to be as gentle as the Italians. I'm pretty sure this rumor got started by someone who was using 3rd and 4th generation Russian hybrids, open mated with whatever was out there. We have had very few hot hives (2 at most, out of 100) and we're in a known AHB area. When I say hot, I mean you would get maybe 5-10 stings from a particular hive. We work in shorts and tee shirts down here in FL and believe me , I would not tolerate mean bees for a New York minute! :roll:
I would go with Italians like the others have said. The italians are very gentle and great for a new beekeeper like your self.
I have Italian Cordoven bees gental nice bees I wanted Russians but they are fickle. Want to swarm more.
I'm a newbee too. Just ordered my italians for spring. I went with them because the general consensus is that they are easier to start with.
Thanks for all the good advice. I plan on sticking with the Italians this year and will see how they work out. They are coming from Georgia, so I'm concerned about them making it through our New England winters. Greg Watkevich
I like Carniolans for a norther climate. Gentle, not quite as swarmy as Russians & smaller broods than Italian. Also seem to be more disease resistant than Ital. IMO. Personally, I have tried Ital, Russian & Carniolans. They each have +/-.... Try them all eventually & decide what you like best :)
My two cents:
I kept Italian Bees from Georgia (packaged bees) a year before but they did not survive because of a veroa kill and the Jersey winter. Then I got two nucs of Italian muts from a local beek last spring. They are still alive and kicking and are very resistant to veroa. I sugest you contact a local beek and get local bees who are allready thriving in your environment.
My Italians are mutts because some bees in the same hive do not have Italian features.
-Rodni
My first year went with Italians, very gentle, grew like the dickens. Then the SHB found them. They liked Italians too! Killed all my hives. Got no honey.
Second year got Russians. Not so gentle, and swarmed first year. Then the SHB found them. They didn't like the way the Russians kicked their butts and were never a problem!! Started year with 10 hives of Russians ended year with twenty, and sold 12 during the year. Got 30 gallons honey.
This year I'm starting with 17 hives of Russians. Last year was, by everyone's accounts, a bad year so I'm ordering a LOT of new woodenware and a lot more honey jars for this season. :bee: :bee: :bee:
BEE CULTURE magazine June 2009 issue: "The most effective method to combat Varroa mites is to use honey bees that are resistent to Varroa mites. They exist. You can buy them. You can make them. They are Russians. They are the survivors. They are hygenic. They are better than the rest. If these bees aren't in your colonies, on your list to buy, on the way to your colonies today...then you are on the list of those who are on the way out. That we continue to pour poison into our boxes when we could be pulling pure and perfect honey out of them instead is amazing. It boggles the mind that this industry hasn't adopted these bees yet." Kim Flottum, editor
'Nuff said. Time to get on board.
I started with Russians and they were so aggressive I could hardly work them. I know other people have different experiences with Russians, but these were so mean the would sting you if you got within 15 feet of the hive. I did actually re queen with new Russian queens (2 hives) and hardly noticed any change. It just turned me off to them. Maybe someday I will try them again. I switched to Italians and for the most part have been gentle as kittens. Take it for what its worth, all strains of bees can have aggressive tendencies. Maybe I just had bad luck, but for now I'll pass on Russians
Many have reported similarly, that the Italian bees are much gentler and easier to manage than Russians. It sounds like the bigger concern is that some commenters suggest that Italian bees are more disease prone and not as hardy in the northern climates. I would really like to hear more about how Italians winter over in the northeast.
Greg Watkevich
The original Russian stock was imported over a dozen years ago. The present USDA Russians are the result of selective breeding over the last 12 or so years and are better, calmer bees than the originals. They are hygenic, mite resistent, high producing, hardy, and easy to work. Some of the bad PR comes from the fact that many breeders advertise Russian bees when what they're really selling are Russian hybrids. Hybrids are not as good as pure Russian. That's why you should buy from Russian Honeybee Breeder Association members only.
This may be premature but ... wanted to let you know that I have an out yard pending written authorization. If it's a go, I think it's perfect for Russians. This spot is fairly secluded from people.
What I'm trying to do is set up yards with one line in each. Meaning Italian in yard A, New World Carniolan in yard B ... etc.
I started last year with three packages of Italians, one of which I had to re-queen because she wasn't laying. Then I picked up a hive of ferals. The ferals out-performed my Italians, put I am happy with all four hives. This year I'm adding a few more packages and looking for more ferals.