Howdy folks, Brand new bee keepre here. Got my first 2 hives last summer and they have wintered over well. I was all ready to feed them and reverse there hive bodies however, I just read a article that stated spring feeding can stimulate swarming. That if the bees had enough to carry them thru the winter that feeding them now if it isn't needed may build their numbers up to fast and cause them to swarm. Also a local long time beek that I visited a few days ago told me he hadn't had any success with reversing hive bodies stopping swarming. He stated that he felt it may delay it however it never stopped it. He spring feeds also.
I was thinking since both my hives are comming into spring strong and are already bringing in polen I may reverse hive bodies but forgo spring feeding. Do you think that this method will greatly reduce the swarm impulse? I am just enjoying the bees and only want honey for my family and a few friends so topped out max production is not important to me.
Anyway what say you bee experts to this idea? Thank's, Brad
feeding should be based on need. what do your stores look like and do they have enough to make it until you have a nectar flow?
skip the box reversing. whenever you are thinking about doing a thing you should first ask why you are doing it. most bees start spring in the top box. bees naturally build down. by swapping boxes you mess up what they would naturally do. there are exceptions. i think tillie just posted one. in those cases, there are things you can try before you swap.
why make more work for yourself? :-D
The reason I was thinking of reversing is I was under the impression that bees naturally worked up.
no, they build down. think about what you see. they attach the comb at the top and work toward the bottom. they build more as they need it. in an established hive, they store honey around the top and sides and cluster in the middle under those stores. as it warms, they eat their way up and out. they end up at the top and that's where the queen usually starts laying....then they start over working their way down.
there are always exceptions.
go to the honeybee removal section and look at some of the cutout pics. you'll get a feel for what a hive does when it's not in a box :-)
I agree with not reversing the hive bodies. With the onset of spring your queen will increase egg laying, hatching means more recruits and more mouths to feed. Check them often to ensure they have enough feed and feed if necessary.
A strong colony will want to gear for reproductive swarming. It will happen sooner if you overfeed them, later if in a good flow.
Splitting is really the only way to manage your hives against swarm losses. You will lose some anyway most likely, it happens.
I guess if you really wanted to you could use a queen excluder but most on here do not. I don't like them either. They do have their uses especially as an "includer" but they just seem so dang unatural.
...JP
Quote from: JP on March 07, 2010, 05:12:24 PM
Splitting is really the only way to manage your hives against swarm losses. You will lose some anyway most likely, it happens.
Have you ever tried putting foundationless frames into the brood nest Like Michael Bush describes on his website?
i rotate undrawn or empty frames toward the brood nest, but not into it. better not to split it, i think. the queen will move out and lay on the empty frames next to the brood. i know people do checker boarding, but so far i have not tried it. keeping empty frames next to the brood as she lays seems to do the trick and is not so disruptive. the bees will also remove honey and pollen as the queen moves out. i have been watching them do this in the observation hive and they can clear space pretty quickly.
Quote from: David LaFerney on March 07, 2010, 07:31:31 PM
Quote from: JP on March 07, 2010, 05:12:24 PM
Splitting is really the only way to manage your hives against swarm losses. You will lose some anyway most likely, it happens.
Have you ever tried putting foundationless frames into the brood nest Like Michael Bush describes on his website?
I use mostly foundationless with starter strips in my brood boxes unless they are drawing wacky comb.
If you are proposing that I open the brood chamber and substitute empty frames to buy them some time, yes, I have done this, but I prefer to split the hive, leaving them with the impression that they have swarmed.
...JP
Quote from: JP on March 07, 2010, 10:42:08 PM
If you are proposing that I open the brood chamber and substitute empty frames to buy them some time, yes, I have done this, but I prefer to split the hive, leaving them with the impression that they have swarmed.
I was under the impression that opening the brood chamber was a swarm prevention strategy.
This is my first spring with overwintered bees, and I'm not trying to imply that I know better - or even know at all. I'm just asking so I can learn.
If you split before the flow to prevent swarming do you combine to build strong hives for the honey season? Or is it so long in Louisiana that it doesn't matter much?
We get one good flow here, April 15 - June 25 more or less. Barely 10 Weeks. So I need a strategy to prevent swarms,
And have strong hives for that period, or I probably won't get much (if any) honey.
We have generous seasons here. I never recombine because our bees build fast and hugely in a flow.
We sometimes can harvest several times in the course of a season. Just last season I had a swarm build into one deep and 3 mediums in 6 weeks and I pulled one full medium with capped honey then.
Swarm control is about timing, if the colony has made swarm cells, you have to split. If you have the time to stay ahead of them, opening the brood nest for swarm prevention makes sense because it buys you time.
...JP
Quote from: JP on March 07, 2010, 11:58:54 PM
Swarm control is about timing, if the colony has made swarm cells, you have to split. If you have the time to stay ahead of them, opening the brood nest for swarm prevention makes sense because it buys you time.
Right. If I fail at prevention, and have swarm cells, I'm prepared to do splits in that case. I really don't have any idea about the timing. This is looking like the first week where it will be warm enough for them to fly every day. I don't know when to start preventive measures. I don't think I need to worry about it yet though. Do I?
Try and speak with others in your area but things to keep in mind: night time temps (40's or higher) drones and drone brood. Once you begin seeing lots of drone brood, swarm cells in early spring are not far behind.
...JP
If the girls need it, they will take it. If they have plenty of stores, they will usually consume that first if it's not too far from the cluster.
Brood rearing takes a lot more food/energy than surviving in a cluster. I started feeding a couple of weeks ago to try to make sure that they survive if we have a cold, wet period forcing them to cluster for 3-4 days and can't get out. On a couple of hives, I placed the syrup jars on the top bars right over the cluster!
Quote from: JP on March 08, 2010, 09:55:27 AM
Try and speak with others in your area but things to keep in mind: night time temps (40's or higher) drones and drone brood. Once you begin seeing lots of drone brood, swarm cells in early spring are not far behind.
Thanks that's a useful tip.
if i put capped honey on top two brood box's will they use it or would i be better off with syrup jars?
Quote from: mdwhitetale on March 08, 2010, 03:19:11 PM
if i put capped honey on top two brood box's will they use it or would i be better off with syrup jars?
If nightime temps are mid 40's or higher you can feed sugar water. If temps are colder give them some honey frames or fondant. Table sugar as emergency feed in very cold temps and they are near starving.
...JP