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BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: bailey on March 07, 2010, 10:31:56 PM

Title: first time grafting queens
Post by: bailey on March 07, 2010, 10:31:56 PM
tried grafting for the first time yesterday from a really nice hive i cut out last fall.
put about 15 grafted wax cells into a starter hive full of bees and fed constantly.
24 hours after i pulled them out for a look. :lol:

it looks like i have between 5 to 8 cells that have been accepted :-D

i want to start some more queens from another hive that i plan on raising queens from but

will i have to remove the queen cells that are being developed now before starting another frame of grafts?
i want to use the same cell starter as much as i can .

will post pics as soon as the cells are capped
wo hoo! i got queen cells!
bailey
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: JP on March 07, 2010, 10:47:40 PM
Bailey, spoke with Alan. You will need to pull those day 9 or 10. Day 6 or 7 don't mess with them as this is the crucial stage where they can be damaged.


...JP
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Kathyp on March 07, 2010, 10:54:49 PM
i got bifocal contacts.  now i can see to try this.  i just need to get to you guys and learn  :-(
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: bailey on March 10, 2010, 10:31:35 AM
ok here are the photos i promised.


first the cell starter full of bees.

(http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1775/cellstarter.th.jpg) (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/cellstarter.jpg/)

then the queen cells 2 days after grafting.

(http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/1775/cellstarter.th.jpg) (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/cellstarter.jpg/)


[IMG=http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1552/qc2s.jpg][/IMG] (http://img203.imageshack.us/i/qc2s.jpg/)

only got 5 cells out of 14 grafts.

have 20 more grafts in a new cell starter i made yesterday, hope the acceptance odds are better
now that i have done it twice.
bailey
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Klepto Kangaroo on March 10, 2010, 07:40:55 PM
i have a couple questions about queen grafting...

i tried this last year and had a little success...but not much

first off...what size were they when you grafted them?
and what did you put into the cell?  royal jelly? or something different?
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: David LaFerney on March 10, 2010, 09:49:04 PM
And that last image...

(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/1552/qc2s.jpg)

Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: bailey on March 10, 2010, 09:53:53 PM
thanks david for helping with the queen cell photo.
here is another one that thought i sent before.
hope it works.
(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/6440/qc1.th.jpg) (http://img709.imageshack.us/i/qc1.jpg/)


bailey.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: bailey on March 10, 2010, 10:02:33 PM
klepto,
i used the smallest larve that i could get under with my grafter and still see.
i transfered them into a dry wax cell that i made and mounted on a push pin.
only royal jelly that went in was what transfered with the larve.

i checked my second batch of grafts this morning and saw a dozen or more good cells out of 22 grafts,
might have more but i wont know till later.
bailey
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: schawee on March 10, 2010, 10:35:47 PM
nice pics bailey. i will try doing some grafting this month.do you have any tips? :bee:
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: David LaFerney on March 11, 2010, 09:33:54 AM
Quote from: bailey on March 10, 2010, 10:02:33 PM
a dry wax cell that i made and mounted on a push pin.

That's a good idea.  Should make it pretty simple to move them into mating nucs.  That's the simplest solution to that I've heard yet.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: bailey on March 11, 2010, 12:54:33 PM
Brian.
Pm me and I'll tell you what I did.

David.
Thanks! The pushpin idea just seemed to make sense.
When the cells are ready I'll grab the pin with a hemostat,
slowly pull it loose and then insert it into the topbar
of the waiting mating nuc.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Michael Bush on March 12, 2010, 04:20:20 AM
The most important thing besides the right age larvae and the timing is the cell starter needs to be overflowing with bees.  I mean packed with bees.  If the bees aren't spilling out of  the top when you go to put the lid on, there aren't enough.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: JP on March 12, 2010, 05:13:38 AM
Quote from: Michael Bush on March 12, 2010, 04:20:20 AM
The most important thing besides the right age larvae and the timing is the cell starter needs to be overflowing with bees.  I mean packed with bees.  If the bees are spilling out of  the top when you go to put the lid on, there aren't enough.

Just for clarity sakes, I'm certain Michael meant to say "If the bees are not spilling out of  the top when you go to put the lid on, there aren't enough.


...JP
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: bud1 on March 12, 2010, 09:38:37 AM
looking good there boy;bet that sawed off cajun taught you all that      ha.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: lakeman on March 12, 2010, 10:13:19 AM
Quote from: JP on March 12, 2010, 05:13:38 AM
Quote from: Michael Bush on March 12, 2010, 04:20:20 AM
The most important thing besides the right age larvae and the timing is the cell starter needs to be overflowing with bees.  I mean packed with bees.  If the bees are spilling out of  the top when you go to put the lid on, there aren't enough.

Just for clarity sakes, I'm certain Michael meant to say "If the bees are not spilling out of  the top when you go to put the lid on, there aren't enough.


...JP



Or he could have meant to say what he said, it being a facetious remark, whereas reading between the lines you should know he really meant you could not have too many bees, at least this is the way I had interpreted Mr. Bush's statement before you questioned it.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: David LaFerney on March 12, 2010, 10:21:47 AM
It seems though that the cell starter doesn't have to be a very big hive - just crowded.  I had success on my one and only foray into this by reducing the volume of a hive using dummies.  So what started out as a single hive body was crowded into a little over half its normal space.   I've seen it stated that you can't raise queens in a nuc, but the one I got from that experience hit the ground running last summer laying lots of brood and is still going strong - so far.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: JP on March 13, 2010, 01:17:35 AM
Quote from: lakeman on March 12, 2010, 10:13:19 AM
Quote from: JP on March 12, 2010, 05:13:38 AM
Quote from: Michael Bush on March 12, 2010, 04:20:20 AM
The most important thing besides the right age larvae and the timing is the cell starter needs to be overflowing with bees.  I mean packed with bees.  If the bees are spilling out of  the top when you go to put the lid on, there aren't enough.

Just for clarity sakes, I'm certain Michael meant to say "If the bees are not spilling out of  the top when you go to put the lid on, there aren't enough.


...JP



Or he could have meant to say what he said, it being a facetious remark, whereas reading between the lines you should know he really meant you could not have too many bees, at least this is the way I had interpreted Mr. Bush's statement before you questioned it.

Yes, I can see what you mean.


...JP
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Michael Bush on March 13, 2010, 07:10:33 AM
It was a typo.  Sorry.  I fixed it.  You need a box that is overflowing with bees to get a lot of good, well fed cells.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: doak on March 13, 2010, 03:40:45 PM
I thought it looked correct to begin with. Over flowing with bees, "super" size colony.
I cannot find the lines you are reading between.

"If the bees aren't spilling out the top when you go to put the lid on, there are not enough bees", Insufficient amount of bees to build numerous queen cells. The only typo I see is if we cannot use the word, (NOT) :)doak
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Michael Bush on March 14, 2010, 01:32:01 AM
It did say "are" now it says "aren't" because I corrected it.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Bee Happy on March 14, 2010, 03:08:00 AM
Neato, I'm not feeling ready to try queen grafting yet, but that day may come.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: mherndon on March 14, 2010, 11:05:14 PM
Should the cell bar be put in the hive before grafting for the bees to clean and get their scent on it?  I read somewhere that this should be done to help the bees take it quick when the grafts are added later.

Mark
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Michael Bush on March 14, 2010, 11:49:42 PM
>Should the cell bar be put in the hive before grafting for the bees to clean and get their scent on it?

I have done this and not done this.  I don't see that much difference, but maybe a little.  The number of bees in the starter, on the other hand, makes a huge difference.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: timjea on March 16, 2010, 12:12:33 AM
So how do you get that many nurse bees?  LEts say I have 4 colonies, and I want to use a 5 frame deep nucbox.  Do I shake nurse bees from all four of my colonies to create the needed amount?  Won't that cause a bunch of fighting?  I suppose I could spray them with 1:1 with HBH to mask their different smells.  Secondly I'll guess the nuc should be arranged as 2 frames of honey / pollen on outsides, capped brood on positions 2 and 4, and then the grafted cells in position 3?
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Michael Bush on March 16, 2010, 11:35:04 PM
You can shake them in...  nurse bees seldom fight.  The more usually way to up the density is to remove boxes, rather  than add bees...

Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: bailey on March 17, 2010, 03:41:58 PM
ok the results.
i only got 1 viable cell from the first grafting, it emerged today!!
poor quality photo but the virgin queen is there!  :-D

(http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/6254/queen1.th.jpg) (http://img695.imageshack.us/i/queen1.jpg/)


bailey.
Title: Re: first time grafting queens
Post by: Klepto Kangaroo on March 31, 2010, 09:54:49 PM
Quote from: bailey on March 10, 2010, 10:02:33 PM
klepto,
i used the smallest larve that i could get under with my grafter and still see.
i transfered them into a dry wax cell that i made and mounted on a push pin.
only royal jelly that went in was what transfered with the larve.

i checked my second batch of grafts this morning and saw a dozen or more good cells out of 22 grafts,
might have more but i wont know till later.
bailey

ok..thanks

i tried royal jelly and some yogurt mix that was supposed to work
although i can't say it worked a whole lot...it could have been me taking to big of larva though too :/