Hi, I'm not a beekeeper but googled this forum and hope you can help answer my question.
I have a property in NW Pennsylvania on which there is a tall, almost-dead maple tree -- little more than a gigantic stump at this point. About 20' up, inside the trunk, there is a large hive of honeybees (at least, I think it's large, judging by the constant stream of bees coming and going). It has been there the whole time we've owned the property (2 years) and I'm guessing a long time before that. Last Fall, the hive built a colony on a limb of the same tree -- several waxy, vertical plates hanging down from the branch. It didn't survive the winter, and it looks like an animal chewed off part of it that fell on the ground (full of honey).
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1400/trouthousebeehive.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/trouthousebeehive.jpg/)
We'd like to cut down the tree, but hate to destroy the hive. Is there any way to relocate a hive of bees that's inside of a tree? I assume if we cut the tree down, the impact of the fall will kill the bees or at least convince them to abandon the hive. Ideally, I'd like to keep the colony on my property, since we're planning to plant fruit trees. But, barring that, if there are beekeepers who are willing and able to relocate such a hive, that would be a preferable option to killing the colony.
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1236/trouthouseclimbingtree.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/trouthouseclimbingtree.jpg/)
Any advice/information from the good folks on this forum is much appreciated!
Chris
Chris,
Welcome! Check on the "need bees removed" link on the top left hand portion of the main page. See if there's anyone near by you. What you're asking about can be done, I've done it myself. It's called a hive extraction. It's hard work, but can be rewarding if the colony is healthy and the queen is gotten. Whomever, you find to get the bees would be the perfect person to ask about having a colony or two on your land.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/board,77.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/board,77.0.html)
you might want to get some good pics ready. i always ask for them before i make a trip out to a place. gives the beekeeper an idea of what's involved.
thanks for the effort. these are the type of hives that many of us try to save.
Where are you located? I am in SW PA. Along with playing with bees, I also have a LOT of experience with trees. If you're not too far away, I may be able to come up and give you some advice, or maybe even help you with your problem.
Be careful, the Africanized bees will build outside more often than European Bees will.
I have never witnessed a swarm here in the south east building outside.
They do in Hawaii. There have been some recordings of European bees building outside here as far north as Ohio. But not often. Are they aggressive? or have you had the opportunity to find out? Where are you hopelessly lost? Guess if you knew you wouldn't be lost.:)doak
it's not a swarm, it's a hive in a tree. PA so not much risk of them being AHB.
Thanks for all the helpful replies, folks!
Lenape13, our camp is between Franklin and Titusville in NW PA. I've driven through SW PA a few times picking up used items on Craigslist to stock the camp, and I know it's not a short drive, but everything's relative -- our primary residence is near Washington, D.C., so anything in western PA seems a short drive. :-D
I'm trying to attach a photo of the tree (the hive is a little under the crotch) and one of the external hive ...
[links deleted due to forum policy -- I'll email the moderator and ask him/her to append them]
I have some zoom photos of the hive somewhere but can't immediately locate them.
Can anyone tell whether these are Africanized bees?
Chris
Some say it's too far north, but there is no guarantee in anything.
Your first clue would be very aggressiveness. They will follow you for a mile or more. More of them will
do the attack thing. Most likely they are not AHB, bees.
You need to check with local Police and fire dept. for a list of local be removal persons.
Maybe the White house beekeeper. Who knows? :)doak
Africanized bees haven't gotten that far north and there's question if they can. Because of warm weather where they originated, they aren't known for being heavy honey producers, and the relatively low hive populations it is doubtful they will survive winters of any magnitude as pure African Honey bees. The furthest north that I am aware of that genetically tested positive is Southern Oklahoma.
Why do you ask? Have they show defensive or aggressive tendencies?
D Coates, The person may have ask because of my reply. Didn't mean to start confusion. :)doak
There's more wild kangaroos in Pa. then there are Africanized bees.
Check with your local exterminators and the county agricultural agent for names of local bee removers. Both keep a list of beekeepers who do it.
If you have an image shack acct you can post the pics here from there you just have to copy and past the forum code in the message of your replys and we all can see your tree to help you out better.
Dracono
he/she doesn't have enough posts to link pics yet. i like picasa better. image shack is harder to use and to look at the pics.
Quote from: kathyp on March 17, 2010, 08:41:51 PM
he/she doesn't have enough posts to link pics yet. i like picasa better. image shack is harder to use and to look at the pics.
And it's started spawning pop ups when you click through too. I hate pop ups.
The photos were posted at the top of the thread. You can't see too much. The crack in the tree trunk is pretty narrow; you can just barely make it out under the crotch. I still haven't found close-ups of the external hive but will keep looking ... -- Chris
Well, I found a better photo of the external hive and have emailed it to the moderator to append to this thread. You can see the bees, but I guess the consensus anyway is that these are not Africanized honeybees.
(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/662/trouthousebeehivecloseu.th.jpg) (http://img2.imageshack.us/i/trouthousebeehivecloseu.jpg/)
Why would they build a hive out in the open like that, right before the harsh NW PA winter? Seems the colony would have instinct not to try that ...
Chris
they will normally build out in the open when they swarm and can't find a suitable home. kinda the loggers faults though they cut everything anymore even hollow logs. it's a shame that good bee trees get cut down and left every day because of ignorance.
Quote from: crcurrie on March 18, 2010, 01:53:14 AM
Well, I found a better photo of the external hive and have emailed it to the moderator to append to this thread. You can see the bees, but I guess the consensus anyway is that these are not Africanized honeybees.
Why would they build a hive out in the open like that, right before the harsh NW PA winter? Seems the colony would have instinct not to try that ...
Chris
It could be that they just had to build in that spot due to a weather change and the colony had rested long enough, expired their energies to move to a better spot.
I get calls on a small handfull of external colonies every year, so they are not the norm. All have been gentle.
I believe some just like to build on the exterior.
...JP
Well, I've struck out so far in getting any interest from local beekeepers in removing my colony. Unless lenape13 wants to drive up from SW PA, I may be out of luck using experts and professionals ... :(
So ... What's likely to happen if we just cut the tree down with the bees in it? The power company has offered to do it for us for free while they're cutting some of our other timber to install new poles, so I need to act soon if I don't want to spend a ton of money to do it later on.
Would the fall kill the colony, or would they just swarm off in search of a new home (hopefully near by but not in an exposed branch)? Is it possible we could just set the trunk section up off the ground somewhere and they'd just go on as before? :?
Chris
Quote from: crcurrie on March 19, 2010, 12:22:49 AM
Well, I've struck out so far in getting any interest from local beekeepers in removing my colony. Unless lenape13 wants to drive up from SW PA, I may be out of luck using experts and professionals ... :(
So ... What's likely to happen if we just cut the tree down with the bees in it? The power company has offered to do it for us for free while they're cutting some of our other timber to install new poles, so I need to act soon if I don't want to spend a ton of money to do it later on.
Would the fall kill the colony, or would they just swarm off in search of a new home (hopefully near by but not in an exposed branch)? Is it possible we could just set the trunk section up off the ground somewhere and they'd just go on as before? :?
Chris
Chris, there is a decent chance that if you simply cut the branch, the queen will be killed in the fall. Without a queen this colony will be doomed.
If you could gently place the branch so its supported and the comb sections are off the ground, you could then up your chances of some beekeeper coming out to get them.
...JP
Just cutting and dropping the tree would no doubt doom the colony. The options are limited on this one. A trap-out isn't feasible due to the distance for me to travel, plus the logistics of placing a hive box at that height. I doubt you have a crane handy to lift and safely lower that section of the tree to the ground to be worked as a cut-out. The only other option is to have a beekeeper climb to the colony and remove it. That would require scaffolding, which I do not have. It couldn't be done on a ladder, just due to the amount of equipment needed. If you could find the scaffolding, I'm quite sure I could be convinced to drive up over a weekend and remove them. We like to camp, so we could make it a working weekend campout!
Lenape13, thanks for describing the logistical challenges involved -- now I understand why the local beekeepers aren't eager to do this.
We were originally going to use this tree as the upper anchor for a zip line. I was intending to purchase an aluminum deer stand from Walmart that we would erect next to the tree to serve as a launch platform. That stand would actually give you a platform at standing height under the hive opening, if I'm not mistaken. I'll probably buy the stand for the alternate anchor tree. If we get this stand and put it up, at least temporarily, under this tree, would that be a workable solution?
If you like to fish for trout, the state fish and game commission dumps a truckload of them in each of the two streams right at the upstream border of our property in April. I'm told the fishermen stand shoulder to shoulder on our stream banks on stocking day, and then you never see another fisherman for the rest of the season (why, I don't know, because the fishing is great all year long). You might want to come up the second day after stocking ... :-D Should warn you, though, PennDOT is replacing one of the bridges right now, so there's heavy equipment working there -- a little less than serene at the moment ...
I see you're from Belle Vernon -- pretty area. I bought an old flail mower from a guy down there. As I recall, it was a couple hours' drive back up I-79 ...
Chris
Chris
If you are talking of a colony inside a hollow of that tree other than picture you posted it is possible to fall a tree and not hurt colony.
I helped my Grandad do so years ago. It was one of most gentle and biggest producers of honey we had.
Trick is to get some one who knows what they are doing in timber felling. If they are good and it is a calm day they should be able to fall it in a direction and gentle enough to keep from harming them much at all.
If worried about it still, one could top tree out above hive determine how far down it goes and cut below it while holding it up, then lower with a boom or block and tackle etc.
After that is done you could just set it out with a top on it off ground which won't harm them at all and they should stay for many more years.
Where there is a will there is a way.
Intriguing, Surjourner! I'm no civil engineer, though -- is it possible to do this without a crane?? The hive is probably 15-20' up ... -- Chris