So I did 2 splits last Sunday from a hive that swarmed, but returned. Queen cells in all splits. My question now is will the queens be able to mate in this weather?
We are having rainy, cold weather for days and into next week.
I did check the weather and it looks like there may be a few days next week where the temps are 57, 64, 64 and 58 partly sunny, partly cloudy. Is this warm enough for them to get out and mate?
I saw from a previous post that they do not need a large window of opportunity to mate. Even 10 minutes will do it sometimes :shock: :shock:
I guess I am nervous about all my hard work doing the splits going down the drain.
Let me know dear people what you all think?
Annette
They are gonna get mated.
...JP
OH this makes me feel better.
Thanks JP
Temps are fine and I know you have drones flying in your area. They also gonna be holding lil red umbrellas when they go out in the rain.
I mean, what drone could resist that!
...JP ;)
unless you have a swallow problem :-(
Just out of curiousity fellow beeks; When a Queen leaves da hive for her mating flight,does she actually mate with drones from her hive or just any drones in the area that gets da welcome signal from her??
Reason for asking is bcuz i've got a queenless hive that i've recently introduced a few frames with eggs & brood into but since there were no drones in said hive i was just curious what'd take place if they should rare a queen from the eggs i've introduced... :-\
Quote from: Jahjude on April 03, 2010, 03:48:00 AM
Just out of curiousity fellow beeks; When a Queen leaves da hive for her mating flight,does she actually mate with drones from her hive or just any drones in the area that gets da welcome signal from her??
Reason for asking is bcuz i've got a queenless hive that i've recently introduced a few frames with eggs & brood into but since there were no drones in said hive i was just curious what'd take place if they should rare a queen from the eggs i've introduced... :-\
Jahjude, she will mate with whomever is available.
...JP
Ok Point taken JP,therefore if one were to really try and control the genetics during Queen breeding then it may also be affected by the drones she mates with rite??
We'd have records of the hive we've bred a queen from and expect similar traits but the possibility of her mating with a few lazy drones may still defeat the purpose dont you think?? :?
We're getting into an area of discussion I don't have a lot of experience in, but I've heard and read and others can and will correct me on this who know for sure, that a mated virgin will have say 50% of the genetics from the parent colony she came from.
The thing to do, so I am told is to infiltrate an area with your stock to ensure that at least some of the desirable genetics you want are available.
My friend Alan Bukley says at leat 40 hives in one yard.
Bjorn bee has lots of experience in this department. Hopefully he will chime in with his insights.
...JP
Hhmm interesting :bee: ,Well will just wait and see if a pro Queen producer will drop a line or two for us
A line or two is impossible..... :-D
Annette,
Your queen will get mated, but there are many issues and outcomes.
A few points.
*A queen in nature may be located a good distance from the nearest neighboring colony. So she may be required to fly a distance from her hive IF she is needed too. However, a queen will go just as far as she needs too in getting mated. Yes, the books suggest she CAN travel 2 miles IF needed, but again, in nature this is a must that may be dictated by distance of the next hive. But not something that happens all the time.
*If there are hives in the area, drones will group in hives preparing to swarm or supercede. This allows a better chance that the queen will not mate with her own drones.
*A queen only needs to mate with one drone to have enough sperm to fertilize eggs for her lifetime. Nature dictates she mate with many for "bet hedging" which allows a hive to limit or overcome weak genetics susceptible to one disease or another. It is better for a hive to have 10% of the bees susceptible to one disease, compared to 100%
Have you ever heard of poorly mated queens in early spring? This many times has to do with a queen getting mated under less than ideal conditions. She needs temps in the 65 or higher range. With lower temps, the window in the day in compressed to a very small window. This means she may not fly far, means drones from other distant hives may not be flying, or that she gets mated with fewer drones. This means her chances that she mates with her own drones increases in bad weather, and she may mate less times meaning the genetics are not diverse, among other things.
Inbreeding happens two ways.
One, in the saturation of your own stock into the surrounding area. You affect the genetics outward, as much as that surrounding genetics effects your apiary. This limits the quality of your stock by having two few genetic variations in your stock.
Two, the mating of queens with drones from you own stock. This can be seen from a cleaning out of eggs soon after they are laid. Queens have been shown to know they are mated with drones from their own hives, but may not be able to stop it. If the queen does get mated with her own drones, the bees can detect it and will remove eggs as they are laid. This can be seen by a bad laying pattern as they are removing a percentage of eggs, and she has to go back and refill in the cleaned out cells. (This of course should not be confused with hygienic behavior and cleaning out later developed larvae that is impacted by mites, disease, etc. Although disease ridden eggs will also be cleaned out) This cleaning out of eggs, sometimes at very high rates, suppresses the overall buildup, hive health, etc. A queen failing to lay properly fertilized eggs will be superseded, and the hive will struggle sometimes as this scenario is repeated and the bees go through this several times trying to get a properly mated queen. Ask yourself...How many people keep hearing or have had experience with new queens getting superseded all summer long? May be your own breeding program, or lack of one.
A good breeder understands the many pitfalls. The best scenario, is bringing in a queen from another distant yard, or a queen from another operation. This eliminated the possibility of a queen mating with her own drones, but also from genetic stock that has been previously saturated the area from your own stock.
Controlling drones through saturation is one thing in a quality queen breeding operation. Genetic selection and controlling the queen genetics, and keeping it separate from the drone stock is just as important. Smaller operations should get quality stock from another like-minded beekeeper, and this eliminates almost all problems in any program.
I hear of some who suggest they just let "nature" take it's own course. This is hogwash. In nature, never would you find 10 hives along side of each other, with genetics coming from the same breeder via installed packages, or some other variation, suppressing genetic hybrid vigor and saturating the area with drones from this many hives of all the same genetics. Nothing "natural" about that.
A strong hive for some may be 30-40,000 bees. But a strong hive should exceed 60,000. The only way to do that is to have properly mated queens, have a hive able to deal with disease, and not be effected by such things as inbreeding. I think much is blamed for one thing or another such as queen supersedure on levels not ever seen before. We make suggestions that perhaps it's chemicals, etc. But if we are already being effected by such things as lousy breeding efforts, then how can you ever really get corrected with the other problems?
Even with all the right things in place, weather can effect the quality by suppressing the queens chances of mating enough, with the right drones, etc. And if you have things already a little off in regards to drone saturation, etc., this just makes the chances far less likely that you will get a quality, well mated, and great productive out of it.
Hope this helps.
You may want to get your queen a book and read it to her about "the birds and the bees".
X:X X:X
Ok I think there is lots of information here for me to absorb. I thank each and every person who responded and I will wait patiently for the outcome of the mating.
Sincerely
Annette
Hi Annette!
I've been watching the weather forecasts here and your queens should be able to mate just fine. They won't be looking to mate until around next weekend and later, and weather should be more agreeable then. I'm thinking this is going to be the last cooler storm system of the year, clear sailing ahead!
I actually have the most trouble getting them mated after the flow is over and they are in a dearth... rain may postpone things, but seldom stops them from mating.
Thanks again Ray for watching the weather around these parts, and thanks Michael for your valuable response.
Annette
Bjorn - that post was awesome. You answered a lot of questions that I've been mulling / struggling with. Thank you!
Thank you ziffa. Glad to help.
And thank you also to a couple PM/emails. Very nice. ;)
Yeah Bjornbee,that was a real eye opener-thanks lots for the valuable info