I have a hive that I noticed is leaning just a little (actually the stand it's on). Its a Nuc I just transfered to a lang deep. Trying to get them to draw the frames foundationless. The drawn frames from the nuc had foundation. I assume foundationless they draw comb pretty much plumb. how tolerant of the hive being alittle off plumb are they?
they may make a mess of your hive drawing comb foundationless if it isnt half way level. Another concern would be once they have drawn out the comb and you add supers it may get top heavy and topple over
Yea I guess a level and shims are in that hives future. :-D I am to paranoid not to do it. But was wondering if they will follow the side bars of the foundationless frame somewhat or if they just followed gravity straight down. I wonder even with foundation how much they will put up with before they get really confused.
Quote from: riverrat on July 29, 2010, 10:42:55 PM
they may make a mess of your hive drawing comb foundationless if it isnt half way level. Another concern would be once they have drawn out the comb and you add supers it may get top heavy and topple over
I try to keep mine level. People swear by large landing decks. Do bees in the wild build landing decks?
The more the hive is leaning in any direction the more your wax comb will be out of plumb with the frames.
Been there done that. :)doak
Have been around all kinds of livestock all my life. Have never met a sheep with a level, a bee with tape measure, or a horse with an OSHA guide. Eye ball it and call it good. Most of the time the things we keep for food or power are pretty forgiving. Be sure to take care of their nutritional needs and basic shelter. That usually suffices. Just m 2 cents!! ;)
Quote from: gguidester on July 29, 2010, 11:51:50 PM
Have been around all kinds of livestock all my life. Have never met a sheep with a level, a bee with tape measure, or a horse with an OSHA guide. Eye ball it and call it good. Most of the time the things we keep for food or power are pretty forgiving. Be sure to take care of their nutritional needs and basic shelter. That usually suffices. Just m 2 cents!! ;)
Don't want to be argumentative, but plants and animals are extremely sensitive to the gravity of the earth, sun, and moon. As I watch "my" bees build on foundationless, they start in the middle of the top bar and seem to just follow gravity. If the hive were sitting any bit off plumb left to right, they'd miss the bottom of the frame.
I've read of some beeks who set their hives a bit off plumb front to back to allow condensation to run to the front/back of the hive during the winter rather than dripping on the bees.
J-
I have a hive stand that holds 6 hives and made it perfectly plumb for the side of the hive and tilted toward the front 1/2" for the rain and condensation.
a level would be overkill. Just eyeball it to where it looks level and move on
Quote from: riverrat on July 30, 2010, 09:00:21 AM
a level would be overkill. Just eyeball it to where it looks level and move on
Some people have pretty lopsided eyeballs. :-D I use a level to get reasonably close, but it doesn't have to be perfect. If you have bees drawing foundationless next to a frame that was drawn level, you might have less than beespace between them and start getting cross comb. How hard is it to use a level? Just takes a second to save yourself more problems later.
My new foundationless hive was almost level, but not quite. When I fed my new package sugar water inside the hive, the feeder leaked and I noticed the syrup coming out the hive at an angle. A short time later, I had a mess, and the comb was at the exact same angle that the syrup had leaked out. Here's it is:
http://hilltopbee.blogspot.com/2010/06/foundationless-failure-and-attempted.html (http://hilltopbee.blogspot.com/2010/06/foundationless-failure-and-attempted.html)
A number of people said it wasn't my fault, which I greatly appreciated. However, to be on the safe side, I now have a level and shims handy. Much easier than fixing that comb, which involved a couple of major remodels.
mine are close and they are fine. some hives will build messy comb no matter what you do. others can be way off level and build straight. i'm into eyeballing it also.
How level will let you sleep at night? :-D
I used a level when I set my hive stands because I can't eyeball level. I have an engineer friend who would probably want to ensure that it was level to the nearest 0.001" or he'd be nervous.
J-
Quote from: kathyp on July 30, 2010, 11:51:09 AM
mine are close and they are fine. some hives will build messy comb no matter what you do. others can be way off level and build straight. i'm into eyeballing it also.
It's true that some bees will mess things up no matter what. And if all the frames are drawn in the same hive, they will all be equally off of vertical, But what happens when you move a frame from one hive to another. You could have a non-vertical frame next to a vertical one, or next to a frame that is off in the opposite direction. I don't think you want to have to worry about that every time you move a frame. The only way to standardize is to make them all vertical.
I don't disagree with eyeballing.... if you are good at it. I'm not. The last hive I set up had to be shimmed. I used a level and got it to about .1" per foot out of level.
And after you get your hives perfectly level, you must make sure that they are in a straight row. Pull a string or use a transit. And if they are not painted white, well.................... :-D
It all matters to what makes you happy with your bees. I have had hives so far out of whack, you would think that they would have fallen over, but the bees never complained to me about them. I think they are happy just to have a roof over their heads.
Quote from: AllenF on July 30, 2010, 03:12:56 PM
I think they are happy just to have a roof over their heads.
Yeah... a roof and a nice slab of almost horizontal comb. :-D
All of our hives are leaning forward slightly. Keeps the snow and rain off the telescoping cover. Also keeps alot of the wet stuff off the hive opening on the SBB.
Some people have pretty lopsided eyeballs. :-D I use a level to get reasonably close, but it doesn't have to be perfect. If you have bees drawing foundationless next to a frame that was drawn level, you might have less than beespace between them and start getting cross comb. How hard is it to use a level? Just takes a second to save yourself more problems later.
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I'm not sure where your at. Around here if you was using a level you better make it part of what you carry in your beekeeping tool box. I have found the sandy soil around these parts settles quite a bit as the hives get heavier. I guess if you was on good hard soil it may be different. Could help but add this for fun. lol :-D :evil:
:lau: I don't think I will take it that far. Actually this may be one of those things were I am talking myself into a problem. I really had never though about it before and had hives draw foundationless ok. But when the idea hit me I started to worry and next thing you know I had a problem. This hive is leaning just alittle to the left. I'll shim by eye and be done with it. Thanks for all the responses
Quote from: AllenF on July 30, 2010, 03:12:56 PM
And after you get your hives perfectly level, you must make sure that they are in a straight row. Pull a string or use a transit. And if they are not painted white, well.................... :-D
It all matters to what makes you happy with your bees. I have had hives so far out of whack, you would think that they would have fallen over, but the bees never complained to me about them. I think they are happy just to have a roof over their heads.
(http://a.imageshack.us/img826/593/honey051.jpg) (http://img826.imageshack.us/i/honey051.jpg/)
Went out feeding a little bit ago and saw this one hive. Yes, the front hive is off quite a bit. I must have run out of blocks that day. It works. Bees don't complain.
I use a level...
All you need is a string with a small weight tied to the bottom end and use it like a plumb bob if you don't have a level, fast and cheap.