Just a friendly word of advice. If you plan on cross wiring your frames, Mann Lake's frames do not have pre-bored holes in the end bars.
I'll be at my drill press this weekend addressing this issue on 225 frames.
Travis
Not sure what size frames you are referring to, but I just got a shipment of deep frames from them and they had drilled side bars.
you can get them either way.
To clarify, I ordered both deeps and mediums and placed the order online. There was no option to add holes in the end bars in the online ordering menu. The only options were the top and bottom bar configurations (grooved, wedge, etc.). I heard from others that if you call in your order, you can specify that they have the holes bored. However, their default configuration is no holes apparently. Not sure what they thought I was doing ordering 2 pounds of wire and 1,000 eyelets ;)
I should have researched it before placing my order. It's been a while since I ordered frames, but I suppose with all the plastic foundation on the market, it makes sense that holes in the end bars don't have to be as common as before. If you order online and want them, make sure you ask for them specifically.
Travis
I ordered my online. Did you order split or grooved top bars? Maybe it depends on the top bars you order. Perhaps they ship drilled with split top bars (used for foundation/wires) and undrilled with grooved top bars (used with plastic foundation/no wires)
Could be. I ordered grooved top and bottom bars. Of course, I ordered the wax along with it (wired w/o hooks) :-D
I could always switch to Duragilt, but I've had issues with the bees chewing wax off the face of it in the past. Some frames they'd draw out beautifully, while others they'd chew down to the plastic and leave it bare. So I'm going with wired this year.
Quote from: teezbees on February 17, 2011, 08:03:02 AM
So I'm going with wired this year.
Good choice, I'd do the same. Spend the time drilling the end bars, you'll be pleased in the long run verses Duragilt.
I think we have all learned a lesson when ordering frames from Mann Lake. I guess for once luck was on my side.
Mine, too, came without the holes. I guess they thought the support pins I ordered along with the frames were just for show. I will not be enjoying the hours of hole-drilling ahead of me.
Quote from: lenape13 on February 18, 2011, 08:17:37 AM
I guess they thought the support pins I ordered along with the frames were just for show.
I kind of felt the same way about the eyelets and 2 pounds of wire with my order. Have you used the support pins before? If so, what are our thoughts? I asked around and didn't get many endorsements from the folks I talked to. That's why I opted for the wire.
the simple solution is to not use foundation. it saves so much time...not to mention money. when i do have occasion to use foundation, i use the pins. they are ok if the frames have a good chance of being drawn out quickly. if not, the foundation, especially in a deep, tends to sag or warp. if the foundation is good and tight into the top bar, it helps a lot.
Quote from: Robo on February 18, 2011, 09:28:18 AM
Quote from: lenape13 on February 18, 2011, 08:17:37 AM
Mine, too, came without the holes.
grooved top bars?
Yes, grooved top bars. I use wired foundation without the hooks. Just pop it in and a couple of support pins and away I go. That's what I use for my deep brood boxes. I use duragilt in my shallow supers.
Quote from: teezbees on February 18, 2011, 10:19:48 AM
Quote from: lenape13 on February 18, 2011, 08:17:37 AM
I guess they thought the support pins I ordered along with the frames were just for show.
I kind of felt the same way about the eyelets and 2 pounds of wire with my order. Have you used the support pins before? If so, what are our thoughts? I asked around and didn't get many endorsements from the folks I talked to. That's why I opted for the wire.
I use the support pins in my deep brood chambers. In the shallow supers I use duragilt. Haven't had any problems, but I may just be lucky.
Quote from: kathyp on February 18, 2011, 11:17:25 AM
the simple solution is to not use foundation. it saves so much time...not to mention money. when i do have occasion to use foundation, i use the pins. they are ok if the frames have a good chance of being drawn out quickly. if not, the foundation, especially in a deep, tends to sag or warp. if the foundation is good and tight into the top bar, it helps a lot.
Some of mine are foundationless, like when I snag the occasional swarm and have nothing prepared. I've been lucky enough that they've always drawn nice straight comb, AND in the direction I've wanted it. Yep, I have very considerate girls....
...i would call mann lake before going to the drill press. when i've had ordering problems with their website in the past, one phone call was all that was required.
deknow
I'm sure Mann Lake would swap me out, but I doubt they'd eat the shipping charges. I should have researched it better rather than assuming. What I'd spend on shipping would finance a 12 pack anyway. Plus, I gotta get busy on building.
Well, I can't see any reason not to give them a chance to fix things.
deknow
Please understand. I'm not beating up on Mann Lake. Just pointing out that they don't bore the end bars unless you ask for it. I'm sure they'd fix me up, but it's not worth it to me to incur the expense of sending them back and waiting for replacement ones. Further, I've got 7 nucs to get set up for and I need to get cracking on assembly.
I like Mann Lake's quality and service. My comments about wire and eyelets in the same order are made tongue in cheek. It's not for an order picker to second guess my order. I accept the blame for not asking for the end bar holes. It's been a long time since I ordered frames, but given the popularity of plastic foundation, I can see why the extra step of boring holes in the end bars would be less the norm nowadays.
Travis
Quote from: teezbees on February 18, 2011, 05:31:49 PM
Please understand. I'm not beating up on Mann Lake. Just pointing out that they don't bore the end bars unless you ask for it. I'm sure they'd fix me up, but it's not worth it to me to incur the expense of sending them back and waiting for replacement ones. Further, I've got 7 nucs to get set up for and I need to get cracking on assembly.
I like Mann Lake's quality and service. My comments about wire and eyelets in the same order are made tongue in cheek. It's not for an order picker to second guess my order. I accept the blame for not asking for the end bar holes. It's been a long time since I ordered frames, but given the popularity of plastic foundation, I can see why the extra step of boring holes in the end bars would be less the norm nowadays.
Travis
Unless you order from Mann-Lake all the time I can't see how you would have known you had to ask to have the end bars drilled. I've ordered a few thousand frames from Brushy, Dadant, and Betterbee and never had to ask any of them to drill holes. If you have to ask to have the holes done I'm surprised they didn't make you aware of that when you placed your order.
I'm glad you have a drill press and can rectify this problem quickly without having to wait for them to correct it. Too close to Spring.
Quote from: teezbees on February 18, 2011, 05:31:49 PM
Please understand. I'm not beating up on Mann Lake.
I don't believe that to be the case. It appears they don't provide drilled side bars if you order grooved top bar (assume you will use plastic foundation). Just last week I got an order of split top bars and they had drilled side bars. All accounts of non-drilled side bars seem to be with grooved top bars.
Sounds like they are just basing it on the norm. If you go outside the norm, then you have to request what you want.
Last year or the year before I got a hold of a load of pre build (already finished) frames from brushy with plastic foundation. Curios about the hole in the frame, I checked this morning and they do have hole drilled in them even with plastic foundation in them. But it really makes sense to me that you don't need the holes with plastic foundation, so who would miss them or want them. Until you use the solid bottoms for something other than plastic foundation.
Again, I accept responsibilty for this issue and feel that perhaps plastic foundation is more the norm.
However, grooved top bars are used with wired foundation without hooks, not just for plastic foundation. Therefore, the drilled end bars are needed with this style frame if this type of foundation is used. As a result, I believe it is presumptous of them to assume that grooved top bars don't call for a need for holes in the end bars.
The bottom line is that it appears if you want drilled end bars, regardless of what frame you use, make sure you ask for them just to be on the safe side.
Travis
:? What do you use to hold the tops of foundation in to the grooved top bars :?
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
I use a wax tube fastener. Rossman carries them.
Quote from: AllenF on February 19, 2011, 09:53:19 AM
Last year or the year before I got a hold of a load of pre build (already finished) frames from brushy with plastic foundation. Curios about the hole in the frame, I checked this morning and they do have hole drilled in them even with plastic foundation in them. But it really makes sense to me that you don't need the holes with plastic foundation, so who would miss them or want them. Until you use the solid bottoms for something other than plastic foundation.
I bought a pallet of preassembled frames from mannlake-there where no holes in them-this is something new to me as the frames i bought couple years ago had the holes--RDY-B