I hijacked this from CVBees thread, posted by Brian D. Bray:
"Also since most, if not all, of the stores were committed to brood development the only way the adult bees have of surviving is to consume the brood underfoot. In either case, if caught unable to cluster, or with too much brood and too little stores, the hive dies of starvation in short order."
I have two hives with queens but no brood. I won't go into a ton of detail but was unable to get to my apiary for over a week and it seemed these two went from "decently weighted hives" to "oh, oh, these are light" hives in that time. I found both in the above-mentioned condition. I stole a frame of brood from another hive for one of these two. I guess I'm hoping the pheramones of the brood might stimulate something. The other hive is so sick with Nosema (my other thread) that I haven't done anything for them (except medicate).
Yes I am feeding them now. But I'm wondering if what Brian said may be a reason I didn't find any eggs, larvae, or capped brood, when I have all three in other hives? How long should I wait before assuming these queens just aren't laying anymore and have to consider requeening?
AliciaH:
I'm not an expert but I think from your location and weather... on your light hives... the queens haven't started laying yet due to your temperature in WA land. Someone from your area like KathyP would probably advise. I know here in North Florida there was a brief laying period last month and my inspection the other day just showed nectar stores instead of the nice brood pattern I witnessed before... we had a nice cold snap over several weeks...
...DOUG
KD4MOJ
So you're suggesting that while some of my queens seem to be off to a nice start for spring, some may have taken a step back because of weather conditions? The weather here in our area has been pretty erratic. And I know that personalities of hives differ from one to the other.
What I'm concerned with is how long do I wait? I don't have enough brood in the other boxes to be able to repeat what I've already done. Though, I don't really have many options anyway. It's so early in the season that I fear they will just dwindle away.
it's been pretty crappy. pretty sure mine have started laying a little, but we had a few warmer days. i put pollen patties on about 1 1/2 weeks ago and started feeding last week. give her a little more time. some get started earlier than others. i didn't dig into mine, but they were bringing in pollen on those couple of warm days and taking water.
even in my observation hive there's only a small patch of brood going.
everything is behind this year.
they are smart enough not to go gang-busters when they don't have adequate resources. see what happens after you feed for a week and when we have had a few warm days.
See... I put the hook in and KathlyP responded. Great Job! Hopefully AliciaH... we'll get to the root of your observations!
..DOUG
KD4MOJ
Quote from: kathyp on March 18, 2011, 08:08:45 PM
it's been pretty crappy.
Yup, that's more along the line of what I was thinking.... ;)
Doug, you're funny!
Okay, I'm a waitin'! I mean really, what else can I do? Just makes me nervous because I'm pretty sure I'm down a couple of queens already.
as long as you have hives with queens you can always combine them and split later.
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Your forecast tell that your weathers are near freezing point. Rain and what ever.
Have you willows in bloom?
My bees in north have brood even if they have not made cleansing flight.
But they may stop brooding if their pollen stores are finish, and they are unable to rear larvae.
More difficult question is if the queen has got nosema. It may stop laying totally. It is not rare.
Once I had a large hive in spring. It had much brood at the start of April, but then brood area disaperared.
There was a same queen but no eggs.
I change the queen but it stopped too the laying. My only idea is that it got nosema.
The third queen continued laying.
I have queen problems after winter quite often.
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Quote from: kathyp on March 19, 2011, 12:52:43 AM
as long as you have hives with queens you can always combine them and split later.
Thanks, Kathy, I've thought of this and may need to go this route, but can only do it with one hive, because....
Quote from: Finski on March 19, 2011, 03:01:13 AM
More difficult question is if the queen has got nosema. It may stop laying totally. It is not rare.
Finski: The other hive is next to one that tested positive for nosema. I am treating them and their neighbors. Since one of the neighbors is the other queen, it is entirely possible that she is infected, just not to the same degree and the main Nosema hive. So hopefully if that is the reason she quit laying, she'll get better.
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Have you willow in bloom yet, or other pollen flowers?
Oh, sorry, Finski! Yes, yes, the bees are bringing in lots of pollen this week. I am still identifying what we have in bloom right now, but for our area it should be a combination of willow, maple, alder, and some others.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the weather will stay moderate long enough that the bees can store enough in case we get one last cold snap.
.
OK. It means that the queen hardly starts laying. It is sick.
The way to test if the queen can still deliever fertile eggs is to take a partial frame ( just larvae and pupae if possible) of brood from a non-diseased hive and place it in the hive with the queen in question. Put the frame in nurse bees and all, over to one side away from the queen. If several frames separate the old bees from the frame a quick combine takes place. The brood frame should stimulate the queen to lay on that frame and then others. If the queen hasn't started lay eggs within 3 days then she is barren, if all the eggs are infertile and all you get is drone cells then replace the queen.
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One explanation may be that the queen has been renewed during a month. It is virgin but not yet lay.
Brian: I did that with both queens. One hive didn't make it, there just weren't enough bees (the last of my queens known for non-foraging behavior). It's probably for the best.
The verdict is out on the second queen.
Finski: I'll keep that in mind. Of course, I don't know whether to hope for that or not since I can pretty much count my drones on one hand.
Thanks for the input!
Quote from: Finski on March 20, 2011, 03:19:09 AM
.
One explanation may be that the queen has been renewed during a month. It is virgin but not yet lay.
One problem with Spring queen replacement is getting them fertilized, hopefully your hives had a few overwintered drones or nearby apiaries had overwintered drones.
It takes 8-10 days for drones to mature enough to mate, if an emergency queen was created out of the initial brood lay by a queen being replaced, the new queen would hatch and most likely complete her mating flights by the time the drones from the same egg lay could hatch. Unless your hives, or hives in nearby apiaries, had overwintered drones, the chance of getting a vital queen is low.
Here in Western Washington the weather has continued to be mostly wet (as usual) even as the daily mean temperatures increases, this can also limit the successful fertilization of a queen due to weather related loss while on a mating flight.
What is the behaviour of the hive? Often, a hive that loses it's queen early in the Spring will almost completely cease to forage. they will huddle in a lose cluster and give off a sad hum sound.
Here's hoping things work out well for you.
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on March 21, 2011, 07:37:43 PM
Here in Western Washington the weather has continued to be mostly wet (as usual) even as the daily mean temperatures increases, this can also limit the successful fertilization of a queen due to weather related loss while on a mating flight.
What is the behaviour of the hive? Often, a hive that loses it's queen early in the Spring will almost completely cease to forage. they will huddle in a lose cluster and give off a sad hum sound.
Yup, I'm watching another squall blow through as I type. Yuk. I'd really like to be able to check the rest of my hives, darn it!
As for behavior, I've noticed the differences in behavior between a queenright hive and a queenless hive, but will a queen who has stopped laying (for good) get the same sort of response as a queenless hive? I admit that the reason I checked this one is because of their lack of enthusiasm when everyone else was abuzz with activity.
Read this posting, it is pertenant to this thread:
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,32053.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,32053.0.html)
Kathy! Your advice played out, one of my queens started laying! It is the queen closest to my nosema hive, so I was afraid Finski might be correct and that they were infected. But I inspected yesterday and she has eggs and very young larvae. "Patience, young padawan, patience....." :-D
Finski, I read the thread. I did do some of those things with the other queen in an effort to help the bees stay warm. There are only about 1/2 cup of bees around this queen so whether or not they survive is still questionable. This is the last of my queens known for lack of foraging.