I just run a batch through the saw shaving a sixteenth off each side of the top bar and end bars prior to assembly. These also got a guide stick top and bottom in the grooves.
Experiences anyone?
check Michael Bush's site: http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm)
I just made 600 from scratch. The adjustments I had to make to facilitate bee space and strength issues included some thickness & width changes:
Top Bar - 15/16" wide x 3/4" thick
Bottom Bar - 5/8" wide x 3/8" thick
Side Pieces are 3/8" thick x 1 1/4" wide at the top & 1" wide on the bottom.
I found with the side pieces only being 1" wide at the bottom that I needed to narrow the bottom bar to 5/8" to keep the side pieces from splitting during assembly.
(all recommendations courtesy of Michael Bush)
Don
No experiences here, but please keep us updated. Im going the opposite way with mine. From 10 to 9. Im thinking it will be less aggravation for inspections and less risky for bee rolling. (I know, more for the keeper than the bees) I am curious to see the results of going from 10 to 11.
In my experience; if they are assembled then you are pretty much committed to using a table saw. Then you cannot trim the top bar properly.
Most definitely easier to do prior to assembly :) I like using the jointer rather than a table saw if you have one.
I am working on converting deep brood boxes to 11 frames and the supers to 9 frames. Right now I have the brood boxes with alternating standard and 1-1/4" frames hoping to get uniformly drawn comb on the new 1-1/4" frames. I am anticipating that on some of the already drawn frames I will need to use the uncapping knife to adjust the comb depth.
When you go from 10 to 9 (fatter spacing) in the brood nest you get uneven comb which leads to more rolling of queens, more bees required to cover brood, larger cells and more drone comb. When you go from 10 to 11 (narrow spacing) you get smaller cells, less drones, more even comb, more brood in the box and less bees to keep the brood warm (leading to more brood). Between smaller cells (if you are doing foundationless) and more ability to cover the brood, this means faster buildup in the spring.
http://bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm (http://bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm)
http://bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm (http://bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm)
http://bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing (http://bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing)
I will second the narrower frame, going from 8 to 9 in an 8 frame box. It helps keep the comb straighter in foundationless hives, plus gives each box and extra frame, which translates in to 100s of more bees per lay cycle. A 9 frame, 3 brood medium sized box hives will out produce both the brood and honey production of a standard 10 frame hive. Since the 2nd item is dependant upon the 1st item the advantages are obvious.
The first time I cut some down with the saw, I felt like the process was a bit dangerous. Since then I use the router table set up like a jointer (fence offset 1/16) and see a better quality cut, faster setup and cutting, and I feel safer. Just another option to consider. All of my colonies now sport 1-1/4 frame spacing, combs are nice and straight, no waviness.
So what happens when the bees draw honeycomb on these more narrow frames? Do you get less honey per frame? If not, I wonder if there is a lack of support at the top bar for very wide comb.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 13, 2011, 09:27:28 PM
So what happens when the bees draw honeycomb on these more narrow frames? Do you get less honey per frame? If not, I wonder if there is a lack of support at the top bar for very wide comb.
You might get slightly less honey per frame but you do get more honey per super.
I just used a hand plane on the end bars of my assembled frames. Two passes on each side of the widened portion of each end bar is all it took. It goes really quickly and gives me some smoker fuel at the same time.
I haven't used them yet but I'm planning to start rotating them into my hives this spring. Brood chambers only.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 13, 2011, 09:27:28 PM
So what happens when the bees draw honeycomb on these more narrow frames? Do you get less honey per frame? If not, I wonder if there is a lack of support at the top bar for very wide comb.
9 in a 8 is for brood only