I was always under the impression that CBing the brood nest caused swarming. But I got my Bee Culture today and on page 49 there it was talking about CBing the brood chamber to get more brood. Anybody got any input on this? Harold
Checkerboarding is done by placing empty drawn comb alternating with honey frames directly above the brood nest. This seems to convince the bees that they do not have adequate stores to swarm. It's used as a swarm prevention method in early spring, about the middle of March in North Carolina.
FRAMEshift, I think you didnt read the Bee Culture Mag. It talks about expanding the brood chamber.
Quote from: beehappy1950 on April 03, 2011, 10:03:32 AM
FRAMEshift, I think you didnt read the Bee Culture Mag. It talks about expanding the brood chamber.
No, I generally don't read Bee Culture. If you are talking about putting frames into the brood nest, that is not checkerboarding. That is brood nest opening, which is another swarm prevention technique. Instead of drawn comb, you use empty frames, either foundationless or undrawn foundation. They are spaced out to prevent chill brood.... maybe every third frame.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesexperiment.htm#background (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesexperiment.htm#background)
I'm sure there are many variations on this same theme. Adding frames above the brood nest does provide space for the brood nest to expand. But I think it is useful to distinguish between adding frames directly to the brood nest and adding space above it.
Afraid I would hate to be w/out Bee Culture or its 'catch a buzz' emails :).
I've been waiting for this discussion to commence, many thanks for posting.
thomas
Checkerboarding: Placing alternating frames of drawn and undrawn comb in the super directly above the brood chamber. The objective is to trick the bees into thinking there isn't enough honey stores to support swarming.
Opening the Brood chamber: Removing frames of honey from the brood chamber and replacing them with undrawn foundation. In a 10 frame hive the 2 outer frames (1 each side) are normally honey storage combs, the next ones in are usually predominately drone combs. By removing the storage combs and moving the next frames to the outside and then inserting the frames of foundation the bees are supposedly fooled into believing the brood nest is not completed and therefore reducing swarming tendencies. This is usually done in conjunction with supering.
If both systems are done at once the swarm tendency is reduced further. In a 2 deep or 3-4 medium brood box the storage frames from the brood chambers are used to checkerboard the super(s) just above the the brood nest. Essently the hive is 40-50 % undrawn combs, depending on whether deeps or mediums are being used.
It is my observation that these two systems, particularly when used together, work best in an all medium box management style.
I guess I need to go pick up my Bee Culture now. I know the article is by Walt Wright -- I spotted it but have not gone back to read yet. Walts (checkerboarding) method usually does not deal with brood manipulation but increases brood production by creating the overhead space needed.
Walts method usually deals with manipulating shallow frames (although can be done with other size frames) w/stores 6-8wks before white wax--- nectar flow.
Maybe he has written something dealing with just brood frames ---- gotta go check :-D
I have asked Walt several times to join us over here!
Thanks for this article. Our hives have swarmed this year so much that I'm afraid they're gonna swarm themselves to death...I will go out tomorrow and try this on some of our hives and see if it helps. We came out of the winter with 14 good hives...I thought. We have had 15-17 swarms since the middle of March and nothing we do seems to get them to stop.
Quote from: beehappy1950 on April 03, 2011, 10:03:32 AM
FRAMEshift, I think you didnt read the Bee Culture Mag. It talks about expanding the brood chamber.
beehappy- I think you better read the article again! In particular paragraph two " The manipulation consist of removing alternate frames of honey from the top box of an overwintered colony and replacing those frames with empty comb suitable for rearing brood.
Since there is no brood nest disturbance, it can be done in late winter."Anything else technically is not checkerboarding but another method of swarm prevention ---- checkboarding does not involve moving brood!
Also note in the next to last paragraph ---- checkerbaording has to be done 6-8wks before nectar flow (white wax) and you have to have drawn comb (of brood rearing depth) to start. You can not use foundation until white wax starts.
I have been following Walts work for about five years and have had good success with it, when I do it properly!
Here is a link to a large majority of Walts articles ---- it is not up to date! Also some of his recommendations changed but the basics are the same. He now overwinters with two shallows of honey of the deep (brood chamber) and a shallow used as a pollen box @ the bottom beneath the deep.
http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/all%20walt%20articles.htm (http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/all%20walt%20articles.htm)
I think I need to thank all you on here and apologize for getting things messed up. I read the column and then searched out checkerboarding on here and must have got them all mixed up. But you have to admit I got a lot of really worth while info about checker boarding and brood expansion, that is what this forum is about. Right? Thanks Harold
That's correct ----no problem here ;) Try the checkerboarding if you get a chance.
Its all about KYBO this time of year 8-). Keep Your Broodnests Open. Both methods described will accomplish that but using them together is best.
thomas
Quote from: T Beek on April 05, 2011, 07:04:07 AM
Its all about KYBO this time of year 8-).
thomas
That's exactly right. We are religious about adding foundationless frames to the broodnest every week in the spring. Once they start drawing wax, things move fast. Since we have migrated to using only long hives we don't have the option of checkerboarding. There's no way to add frames above the brood nest.
The nice thing about checkerboarding is that you can use it earlier in the spring while it's still cold, since you are not disrupting the brood nest and chilling the brood. In North Carolina, KYBO could start in the middle of March. Checkerboarding could start two weeks before that.
FRAMEshift; I've been contemplating a full size second story for my Long Hive(s), with insulated movable follower boards. I'm thinking I could either empty it of frames for winter and insulate or close up area around both sides of brood nest (beyond followers) and insulate, allowing for ample room to feed 'if' needed.
I think you can tell I'm still just in the thinking stage ;) That said, I'm certain it was COLD that killed my Long hive colony (a 2009 package) a few weeks ago and if I'm going to continue using Long Hives I've got to get them better protection from our winters. They are well worth it to me (and my back), and such fun to work, so I'll keep trying.
thomas
Quote from: T Beek on April 05, 2011, 09:05:54 AM
FRAMEshift; I've been contemplating a full size second story for my Long Hive(s), with insulated movable follower boards. I'm thinking I could either empty it of frames for winter and insulate or close up area around both sides of brood nest (beyond followers) and insulate, allowing for ample room to feed 'if' needed.
I have considered the idea but how do you access the bottom level without getting back into lifting BIG boxes? Can you just slide the top level frames out of the way? Makes it hard to see and adjust the bottom level.
Quote
I think you can tell I'm still just in the thinking stage ;) That said, I'm certain it was COLD that killed my Long hive colony (a 2009 package) a few weeks ago and if I'm going to continue using Long Hives I've got to get them better protection from our winters. They are well worth it to me (and my back), and such fun to work, so I'll keep trying.
If bottomless hives can work in a given climate, I don't see how long hives could be any worse. Why do you think cold killed your Long? Did they just burn through their stores?
Just please learn from my mistake last year--I "checkerboarded" the brood nest, not having carefully reviewed old notes, and I had bad brood issues. Probably chilled brood. I have read MB (I hope I am accurate this time) suggest one empty between 2 full brood combs, but I did every other and it was definitely not a good idea.
Good luck!
Quote from: luvin honey on April 05, 2011, 02:13:22 PM
I have read MB (I hope I am accurate this time) suggest one empty between 2 full brood combs, but I did every other and it was definitely not a good idea.
We do the BBEBBEBBE pattern, where B is brood and E is empty. So every brood frame is next to at least one other brood frame for warmth. And we avoid two foundationless frames together because the bees will continue extending comb right through the second frame, making extra thick comb. Having the drawn comb on either side blocks overextension of the new wax on the foundationless frame.
FRAMEshift; Thanks, you've made some good points for me to ponder. There are so few beeks using Long Hives so I'm glad you were/are around and posted. I wasn't planning on using the whole length of second story for frames, and may not use it at all during midsummer, except perhaps to experiment w/ venting, and at its most occupied it would be the area of a medium super maximum (perhaps to collect honey), hence the movable followers.
My primary motive is having the option to place a candy board 'over' brood nest area with 2-4 inches of insulation over that for winter.
I feel they froze during a cold snap (well below zero) in February, following an explosive cleansing flight during a slight warm up (never saw so many yellow polka-dots ;). By the next warm up (2-3 weeks later) I could already smell them. There was one soccer ball size cluster, with queen in middle, sitting right on top of a near full frame of honey with more all around, along w/ three tiny (baseball) clusters spread out toward back. As in past years they had created tunnels allowing for access throughout the hive, the little geniuses 8-). They never touched the sugar I left them on the back end behind the follower, or the last 9 frames of honey. I put them to bed (for the second time due to unusually warm Fall) last November, downsized from 35 frames to 29. This Long Hive takes 40 frames max.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks again.
thomas
Quote from: luvin honey on April 05, 2011, 02:13:22 PM
Just please learn from my mistake last year--I "checkerboarded" the brood nest, not having carefully reviewed old notes, and I had bad brood issues. Probably chilled brood. I have read MB (I hope I am accurate this time) suggest one empty between 2 full brood combs, but I did every other and it was definitely not a good idea.
Good luck!
Semantics I know--- but you did not "checkerboard" the brood nest :-D Checkerboad is the term used for Walt Wrights Nectar Management! You opened the broodnest.
Quote from: T Beek on April 05, 2011, 03:12:28 PM
at its most occupied it would be the area of a medium super maximum (perhaps to collect honey), hence the movable followers.
Ok, that makes sense. We size our Long Hives to match three standard migratory tops (33 frames) so we could just remove one migratory top, add a standard hive box, and move the migratory top up. You are correct, we could use that to add frames over the brood nest, but we have not done that yet because we would be lifting boxes again. I guess I'm being VERY lazy. We have had such good success with Long Hives that we haven't really tried to go up as well. It might make sense to add a single medium for June flow and then remove it altogether. Something to experiment with.
I'm not sure what the bees would do with the space. Would they put honey there and maintain the brood nest to the side, or would they expand the brood nest upward. Do you have any experience with that?
Quote
My primary motive is having the option to place a candy board 'over' brood nest area with 2-4 inches of insulation over that for winter.
We want to use a half hive sheet of insulation in winter to cover an expanded brood nest. This would not work well if we had a discontinuous level on top. If you have a better way of insulating, maybe you could just add a shallow box on top to hold your candy board. So far all we have done is add dry sugar on newspaper but there is only room for maybe 1/4" of sugar. That is enough in our climate but not enough for you.
Quote
I feel they froze during a cold snap (well below zero) in February, following an explosive cleansing flight during a slight warm up (never saw so many yellow polka-dots ;). By the next warm up (2-3 weeks later) I could already smell them. There was one soccer ball size cluster, with queen in middle, sitting right on top of a near full frame of honey with more all around, along w/ three tiny (baseball) clusters spread out toward back. As in past years they had created tunnels allowing for access throughout the hive, the little geniuses 8-). They never touched the sugar I left them on the back end behind the follower, or the last 9 frames of honey. I put them to bed (for the second time due to unusually warm Fall) last November, downsized from 35 frames to 29. This Long Hive takes 40 frames max.
Ok I guess they did die of being trapped by cold. This is the pattern with so many Langstroth hives as well. I don't think there is anything unique about the Long Hive in that. I'm very interested in your Long Hive experience so please keep me updated on what you are doing. :-D
Will do, and thanks again for posting back.
thomas
Quote from: sc-bee on April 05, 2011, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: luvin honey on April 05, 2011, 02:13:22 PM
Just please learn from my mistake last year--I "checkerboarded" the brood nest, not having carefully reviewed old notes, and I had bad brood issues. Probably chilled brood. I have read MB (I hope I am accurate this time) suggest one empty between 2 full brood combs, but I did every other and it was definitely not a good idea.
Good luck!
Semantics I know--- but you did not "checkerboard" the brood nest :-D Checkerboad is the term used for Walt Wrights Nectar Management! You opened the broodnest.
Thanks :) I'm very nitpicky about spelling, grammar and proper word usage, so I will try to remember this! Anyway, it was a very bad idea, but I hope to have the chance to try to prevent swarming with the BBEBBEBBE, etc.
Quote from: luvin honey on April 06, 2011, 01:07:09 AM
Quote from: sc-bee on April 05, 2011, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: luvin honey on April 05, 2011, 02:13:22 PM
Just please learn from my mistake last year--I "checkerboarded" the brood nest, not having carefully reviewed old notes, and I had bad brood issues. Probably chilled brood. I have read MB (I hope I am accurate this time) suggest one empty between 2 full brood combs, but I did every other and it was definitely not a good idea.
Good luck!
Semantics I know--- but you did not "checkerboard" the brood nest :-D Checkerboad is the term used for Walt Wrights Nectar Management! You opened the broodnest.
Thanks :) I'm very nitpicky about spelling, grammar and proper word usage, so I will try to remember this! Anyway, it was a very bad idea, but I hope to have the chance to try to prevent swarming with the BBEBBEBBE, etc.
I understand --- not trying to be picky! I guess what I should have said is it makes it hard to search for post on checkerbaording as Walt Wright coined it when folks use it to explain methods used to manipulate brood. That is why I usually throw Walt's name in there somewhere so folks can search by his name.
I thought the post was going to be about checkerboarding but it later turned into a long hive post :? :-D
Walts ideas have been dimissed by many in particular the older, veteran beeks (you know old dog new tricks). Folks say it is the same old hive reversal, pyramiding, or opening up brood method with a different name. This is not true!
I am not sure a Northern beek has had any success with checkerboarding. But, I think a Southern beek should really study up on it and give it a try. What do you have to lose and you may just be surprised!
Many northern beeks have practiced checkerboarding and still do. (its been called many things over the years). Sorry about falling off topic but sometimes when a related issue arises on a thread its hard not to respond (at least it didn't deteriorate into a political debate as too often happens :-D) and as long as the topic remains friendly, personally I see no harm in wandering off now and then, but again I'm sorry if you were offended, no harm intended.
Everyone has something to learn, old dogs and young pups.
thomas
Not offended at all :) and we all tend to wander off the topic at times me included.
>Many northern beeks have practiced checkerboarding and still do. (its been called many things over the years).
I have not been in beekeeping long enough to comment on that, but if you are moving brood it is not checkerboarding! Not trying to make it a political debate, I would just like to see Walt Wright get credit where credit is due ;)
Thanks
Quote from: sc-bee on April 06, 2011, 01:50:03 PM
I thought the post was going to be about checkerboarding but it later turned into a long hive post :? :-D
Oh, sorry. I was sort of talking about how to do checkerboarding with long hives...... sort of. :evil:
Walt does deserve lots of credit. But so far, in our rather warm climate in NC I have found KYBO to be all I need. And supering sort of defeats the purpose of long hives. But I may give it a try to see what happens.
Here is a link to Walt Wrights list:
http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/all%20walt%20articles.htm (http://www.knology.net/~k4vb/all%20walt%20articles.htm)
I know nothing about long hives :?
Quote from: sc-bee on April 06, 2011, 10:01:17 PM
I know nothing about long hives :?
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beeshorizontalhives.htm)
I should have mentioned that I have topbars, so the methods may not work with Langstroths. Anyway, I was trying to prevent swarming (as happened my first year) by opening up the broodnest in a BEBEBEBE pattern, but it should have been BBEBBEBBE. It's hard to get into the hives often in summer, as we run a vegetable CSA and things get crazy, so I jumped the gun and overdid it.
I want to give topbars a couple more years, but I would eventually like to try Langstroths also and see how they differ.
Quote from: luvin honey on April 07, 2011, 10:50:58 PM
I was trying to prevent swarming (as happened my first year) by opening up the broodnest in a BEBEBEBE pattern, but it should have been BBEBBEBBE.
And even the BBEBBEBBE may be too aggressive in cold weather. Start gradually adding an empty frame here and there beginning two weeks before the redbud blooms in your area, but only if the weather forecast is for warmer weather in the immediate future. Every gap you make in the brood nest must be filled in with bees to maintain warmth for the brood. If you see them quickly drawing white wax on those new frames and the queen starts to lay there, you can slowly increase up to the BBEBBEBBE pattern. But keep an eye on the weather forecast. If you see a giant cold front coming, leave the brood nest alone.
That's good advice, FRAMEshift--thanks. I believe I will start by feeding in bars at the backside of the broodnest, as WI springs are notoriously unpredictable. As we head towards solid summer weather, I will consider doing the above pattern if the hives are booming.
I started with Langs and still have several. I got into TBH and loved them (learned alot about bee behavoir) but only have LONG Hives and Langs now since I made everything interchangable with all mediums. My Long Hives are built long enough to fill both ends with about 5# dry sugar or syrup (once warm enough) behind followers that can be closed to bees or open depending on use desired. Without a second floor of some form checkerboarding wouldn't be possible with LONG Hives.
thomas
Quote from: sc-bee on April 05, 2011, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: luvin honey on April 05, 2011, 02:13:22 PM
Just please learn from my mistake last year--I "checkerboarded" the brood nest, not having carefully reviewed old notes, and I had bad brood issues. Probably chilled brood. I have read MB (I hope I am accurate this time) suggest one empty between 2 full brood combs, but I did every other and it was definitely not a good idea.
Good luck!
Semantics I know--- but you did not "checkerboard" the brood nest :-D Checkerboad is the term used for Walt Wrights Nectar Management! You opened the broodnest.
Sematics again---Walt Wright doesn't hold the copyright on the term checkerboard or checkerboarding it is too general of a term to be copyrighted. In common usuage it is the practice of alternating brood combs with nonbrood combs or drawn comb and foundation in a pattern.
>Sematics again---Walt Wright doesn't hold the copyright on the term checkerboard or checkerboarding it is too general of a term to be copyrighted. In common usuage it is the practice of alternating brood combs with nonbrood combs or drawn comb and foundation in a pattern
:-D
Question: What if you want to checkerboard AND the bees have moved up into the second deep. There may or may not be brood in the second deep. Would checkerboarding make sense?
Hi Everyone,
I was told the hive moves up from the bottom box to the top box as winter progresses. Does the hive move back down in the spring so that you are able to checkerboard (i.e. not disturb the brood area)?
Thanks,
Chris
If brood is in top super all you do is add another super on top and checkerboard it. I'm using the method to lure bees up and to make new comb until it warms up enough to dig in to it for clean up and inspection.
While Spring bees are in top supers laping up syrup, making comb, is also a great time to clean up lower supers, bottom boards etc.
thomas
Hi T-Beek,
Thanks for the info...that makes sense. Since we are in the same neck of the woods I'm curious when you start implementing some of this spring management. I have 3 hive that made it thru winter and 2 seem very strong. I don't think I'm interested in any splits this year (since I have 3 packages coming sometime this spring), but obviously I'd like to avoid swarming if possible.
Thanks,
Chris
So the confusion begins :? at least for me. But I stay :? Are we asking about checkerboarding as Walt Wright coins it. Or since Walt has no copyright on the word, are we asking about the other checkerboarding.
Seems in recent years (my experience is only six years) the Bee Mags refer to Walt's system as checkerboarding :deadhorse: and the other as opening the brood nest. I actually think Walt originally referred to the system he uses as checkerbaording and later changed it to Nectar Management to try and avoid the confusion. But I believe it was too late and checkerboarding stuck.
Based on that I am not sure what the last two posters were asking :? One did however mention moving no brood.
sc-bee, these are the definitions I use: http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm#opening (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm#opening)
If checkerboarding just means alternating frames, we could just as well say "alternating frames". It is useful to differentiate between checkerboarding the honey comb from opening the brood nest. Over time, words come to mean what the greatest number of people choose for them to mean. :-D
Oh me, oh my....."Alternating frames, manipulating frames, expanding and/or opening brood nest, CHECKERBOARDING, whatever one calls it, it all comes down to KYBO. KEEPING YOUR BROODNEST OPEN. Isn't 'that' the desired result? Isn't that what Walt's article describes? His article is titled "MANAGE YOUR BROOD RIGHT FOR MORE HONEY." And further sub-titled "The large brood volumes fostered by expanding the broodnest by my 'checkerboarding' technique makes a larger difference in honey production than 'normal' (whatever normal is) swarm prevention."
My copy of the original 1877 (a 1923 copy) ABC-XYZ Beekeeping 'cyclopedia' calls it "spreading the broodnest" and/or "frame manipulation." I'm not sure "who" should be getting credit for these methods but I am fairly certain those so deserving, may be long dead.
mixofsam/chris; Its supposed to be 65F today, if wind isn't too bad I'll be digging in and doing some of the above, regardless of the word(s) used to describe it :-D. (Our expected high for Sunday is 35F and snow showers).
I've been calling such methods of frame manipulation "KYBO" for several years now (actually stole it from another acronym ;)). Can anyone guess what?
Simply put, KYBO grows bees, suppresses swarm urge by keeping them busy and happy, and many claim they get more honey (including Walt) depending on timing of manipulation. There is something of an art to beekeeping in general and "manipulating frames" specifically, and for various reasons, has been around for a very long time, likely since the first 'movable' frames were developed. I'm not sure if all the debate over what to call certain techniques of manipulating frames or who should recieve credit is really valid or useful, but I'm still listening :) and learning.
thomas
Quote from: T Beek on April 12, 2011, 10:03:45 AM
My copy of the original 1877 (a 1923 copy) ABC-XYZ Beekeeping 'cyclopedia' calls it "spreading the broodnest" and/or "frame manipulation." I'm not sure "who" should be getting credit for these methods but I am fairly certain those so deserving, may be long dead.
Hmmm. Frame manipulation. We need a simpler term. I know. Let's all agree to call it FRAMEshift. :-D :evil:
KYBO is an excellent term. Hope it catches on.
I first picked up the KYBO acronym back in the mid 60's but it meant something else then ;)....and I guess it still does too. I only started relating it to bees a few years ago. It fits well for me.
thomas
Quote from: T Beek on April 12, 2011, 10:03:45 AM
Oh me, oh my....."Alternating frames, manipulating frames, expanding and/or opening brood nest, CHECKERBOARDING, whatever one calls it, it all comes down to KYBO. KEEPING YOUR BROODNEST OPEN. Isn't 'that' the desired result? Isn't that what Walt's article describes? His article is titled "MANAGE YOUR BROOD RIGHT FOR MORE HONEY." And further sub-titled "The large brood volumes fostered by expanding the broodnest by my 'checkerboarding' technique makes a larger difference in honey production than 'normal' (whatever normal is) swarm prevention."
With all due respect Thomas ---- KYBO and Walts Checkerboarding (Nectar Management) are no where near the same ;) Walts method does not involve opening the broodnest but does encourage the expansion of the broodnest. Entirely different!
Bottom line control swarming in the manner that best suits your needs and call it what you like :)
sc-bee; This is getting tiring, don't you think?. But since you're so convinced I'm going to ask you to; Please explain in detail how any of the above described methods are "no where near the same" and/or "Entirely different!" I'm afraid that this spreading of confusion is not helpful. I believe that expanding and opening the broodnest are the same thing but if that's wrong, please set me straight.
And I must disagree, after reading the article for the third time it's apparent that Walt's methods (as well as the title of the article in question) clearly describes "expanding the broodnest." We "are" still talking about the latest Bee Culture article, right? In the one I've read he describes "frame manipulations" (something that's been around for over 100 years) used for "Brood expansion, MORE honey and swarm control." So............
Again, I just don't understand the debate or why it is continuing, so due to my own ignorance I'm asking for a less opaque explanation, (and just wanting to give Walt Wright credit for these methods doesn't count :-D)
thomas
Get back with you later t-beek for some more :deadhorse: I promise ;)
I must admit a little bias on my part. Up until a couple of years ago I didn't have a copy ABC& XYZ of Beekeeping or The Hive and the Honey Bee or any other book about beekeeping, other than one I wrote as a high school science project back in the 1960's. I've relied solely upon the information I was taught by my mentor and what I've picked up on my own in the 45 years since my mentor's passing. I now own both the books mentioned and a few more, but I haven't read either completely, just bits and pieces. I found a lot the experience has shown me to be incorrect.
My mentor, who had been beekeeping since the 1890's, used the term Checkerboarding for any application where frames of different status were alternated in any pattern. As a result, that's the way I use the term and really thought everybody else did too. Naivity on my part.
So, I will stay out of the arguement from here on out concerning Checkerboarding, frame management, opening the brood chamber, or frameshifting.
Not to continue this stray off topic, but as we all know, having a "good" mentor early on is a luxury for many beeks. Brian is one of the fortunate and we are fortunate to have his wisdom as was passed down to him. My original mentors, if one can call them that (they practiced some methods that even then, I felt/knew were harmful to bees), were a commercial outfit out west during the mid-70's, we ran about 1500 hives, which was a lot back then. They sucked as mentors, nuf said about that.
Anyhow, the experience left me with such a bad taste that it took 30 years to get back into beekeeping (on my own without a mentor, other than all of you :) and a huge amount of reading, basically relearning everything I thought I knew. But one thing I do know for sure is that moving frames around for a variety of reasons has been practiced for a very long time.
thomas
I come to you humbly with my tail tucked, egg on my face, while eating crow :oops: After you mentioned were we looking at the same article I backed tracked and notice my pages and the original posters pages did not match. The post was on April 2, so I ASSuMEd the article was the one I read recently in Bee Culture. The article I was referring to was in the Feb issue. I have since learned from you guys and seeing it today that there is an article in the April issue. I did not have time to read the issue, I briefly scanned it, and my issue has not arrived. Probably because it is time for me to renew!
Of course I can not respond specifically to an article I have not completely read, though scanning it however it looks similar to his other articles which I have read, all I can find on Checkerboarding (Nectar Management). I also purchased his manuscript on Nectar Management. He has written some articles on other subjects, the pollen box maneuver , feeding etc. I have spoken to Walt several times by phone to get clarification on a few matters and he has written me once. No this doesn't make me an expert :-D but probably, a little more informed than most and less informed than some.
I stand by my above statements in previous post :soapbox: and will remark on them based on other articles or I can wait till I read the new article! The call is yours!
Yes it is getting a little tiring but I have gotten a second wind or burst of hot air :-D and am ready to go again :deadhorse:
By the way Brian join in, I promise I will take no offense, and I value reading your post as always ;)
One last remark - I did not in any way mean to suggest Walt coined the phrase Checkerboarding and I don't think he intended to try! It is just the name I think others stuck on it, as he started with the name Nectar Management (but of course here I go ASSuMEing again). My comment was meant to mean, there needs to be a way to differentiate between the methods as to avoid this kind of confusion (I think I stated that above). As for giving Walt credit, what I meant, was for his work with bees and being willing to share it with others not discovering checkerboarding or cornering the market on it.
I really think no one is interested in this topic although it is getting alot of views. I think it is probably just a subject between us two! :devilbanana:
Maybe others, if interested, can and should weigh in!
Steve
KYBO (which I feel also includes the techniques known as checkerboarding) is still good enough for me, but that's "just me."
I'm not here trying to force my opinions on anyone, but KYBO describes/includes most (all?) forms of frame manipulation well enough with the end result depending on the beek doing the frame manipulating, whether for swarm control, growing more bees (or squeezing them down) or making more honey (which was the essence of Walt's 'most recent" article regarding checkerboarding).
In hindsite, I guess "all of the above" could just come under the FRAME MANIPULATION heading, including KYBO.
thomas
>I'm not here trying to force my opinions on anyone, but KYBO describes/includes most (all?)
Neither am I! ;)
>Bottom line control swarming in the manner that best suits your needs and call it what you like Smiley
I think that is what I said a few post back!
If it works don't fix it :-D
Going into my 12th year of beekeeping. I have never checker boarded, I try to keep enough ready brood boxes/honey supers on hand to add when needed. Most times swarming comes from the bees running out of room.
If you got married and had twins the first year, a boy and a girl. You started with one bed room, what wood you do? :? :)don2
Expand the broodnest? :-D
thomas
Quit staggering the honey :-*
Quote from: sc-bee on April 17, 2011, 07:59:26 PM
Quit staggering the honey :-*
Fermented honey is what causes all the staggering. :-D