I picked up a 5 frame nuc last Fri. (April) and brought them home and transferred them into a standard 10 frame Langstroth deep.I used a 2 quart BB feeder I got from Brushy Mountain and filled it up with 1:1 syrup that night.The next morning when I checked on the hive the bees had already gone through a third of the syrup,and have already gone through over 2 1/2 quarts when I checked today(Mon. April 4th).I checked to see if the feeder was leaking and it wasn't,also haven't notice and signs of robbing.
Is this the normal amount a new nuc should go through?
I'd consider 2-3 qts a day pretty normal for a 5 frame NUC. Do you have room to expand? Did you create room when you placed into 10 frame? They need the syrup to produce more comb and if you provided room they are likely building out. Depending on how old the NUC was I suppose you could have new bees hatching out right now. Did you notice any open brood when hiving?
thomas
Quote from: T Beek on April 04, 2011, 09:28:38 AM
I'd consider 2-3 qts a day pretty normal for a 5 frame NUC. Do you have room to expand? Did you create room when you placed into 10 frame? They need the syrup to produce more comb and if you provided room they are likely building out. Depending on how old the NUC was I suppose you could have new bees hatching out right now. Did you notice any open brood when hiving?
thomas
I'm guessing(I'm still real green at this)when you say room to expand ,you mean did I put in more frames of foundation,and the answer is yes.I added 5 frames of of the plastic foundation that's coated with wax and sprayed a little syrup on them(read somewhere to do that).The nuc was made the day I got it.And yes I did notice open brood when I hived them.
Sounds like you're on your way 8-)
thomas
Quote from: T Beek on April 04, 2011, 09:51:35 AM
Sounds like you're on your way 8-)
thomas
Thanks so much for helpful advice Thomas!!!!
Once the nuc is beyond any concern for starvation, I would ease up on the feeding. Many times the bees with 24 hour access to syrup will backfill the available comb to the point that they inhibit brood production as they compete with the queen for space.
You can correct this if you continue to feed by rotating in foundation into the center of the brood area, constantly opening up more area for the queen. This will allow for maximum comb production while also allowing the queen to lay unimpeded.
BjornBee, At what air temp do you think you can start rotating in foundation without chlling the brood?
Tim
Tim,
Bees generally do not make new wax until the temps are above 65 during the day.
Rotating boxes, feeding in new comb, and other tasks should be done when night time temps moderate a bit and your past freezing temps. I have heard some already around here moving things around, but I think there is no big advantage to be gained if the temps are not conducive for the benefits to be realized by the bees.
I'd say you probably got a couple more weeks to go to do thing's like expanding the brood chamber.
Actual temp....hard to say.
BjornBee is 100% right, Waiting will be worth it..Right now, feeding is what you could be doing if not already. Mine are taking 'inside' dry sugar and 'outside' pollen sub right now :) Since I only have one survivor (out of five) left I put the dry pollen right on top of their hive.
I 'generally' don't move any frames inside brood area until it hits 60F, but I think one can get away with checkerboarding (on another thread) if expansion becomes an issue since that manipulation only occurs just above brood nest, if I'm getting it right.
thomas
I usually feed my five frame nucs with a one gallon frame feeder. It is not uncommon for it to bee empty when I come back three days later. One way to slow down how fast they can suck up the syrup is a jar with holes over inner cover. By only using two or three small holes they will only be able to use so much a day and may be a better option so they dont back fill everything like mentioned. Jars are cheap and work well.
Quote from: BjornBee on April 05, 2011, 08:12:40 AM
Once the nuc is beyond any concern for starvation, I would ease up on the feeding. Many times the bees with 24 hour access to syrup will backfill the available comb to the point that they inhibit brood production as they compete with the queen for space.
You can correct this if you continue to feed by rotating in foundation into the center of the brood area, constantly opening up more area for the queen. This will allow for maximum comb production while also allowing the queen to lay unimpeded.
Thanks for the tip on the frame rotation BjornBee,Today was a crummy down here for looking in on the new nuc.Tomorrow is supposed to nice and I plan on taking a peek to see how they're doing.
I do have a question if you don't mind.How many frames should I rotate toward the center,and do they need to be side by side,or have a frame of brood in between them?
Thanks,
Russell
Read checkerboarding the brood nest. Two lines down from you post. Harold
Quote from: beehappy1950 on April 06, 2011, 12:03:44 AM
Read checkerboarding the brood nest. Two lines down from you post. Harold
I did Harold,but I'm a little confused on what exactly to do,all that is a little overwhelming for a newcomer though.
The way I understood it ,was to put on another deep with drawn and undrawn comb,but still unsure.
It got a little confusing(as all this does for the green beek) with the sight dispute between two members on what "checkerboarding is exactly.
I always suggest to nuc customers that when they get home and the bees get settled (a couple days) that they should move the two outside frames out one position when they install them in a ten frame box. So what they have is this...
Position:
1 - Foundation
2 - the first frame from the nuc
3 - foundation
4 - Brood from the nuc
5 - Brood from the nuc
6 - Brood from the nuc
7 - foundation
8 - the last frame from the nuc
9 - foundation
10 - foundation
A strong nuc can be opened up like this probably in most areas as soon as you get them, assuming they are being produced locally. (You may get a nuc from down south in early April and have them shipped north, but then the weather may be at odds of you breaking open the frames like stated above.)
Then within two weeks, it usually is time enough to add the second brood chamber. And you can remove the center two brood frames from the original bottom box and place them in the center of the new upper box. Many factors go into how many frames to move, whether to move up honey frames, etc. For instance....As a general rule, do not place foundation in between frames of open nectar or uncapped honey.
Quote from: BjornBee on April 06, 2011, 08:15:39 AM
I always suggest to nuc customers that when they get home and the bees get settled (a couple days) that they should move the two outside frames out one position when they install them in a ten frame box. So what they have is this...
Position:
1 - Foundation
2 - the first frame from the nuc
3 - foundation
4 - Brood from the nuc
5 - Brood from the nuc
6 - Brood from the nuc
7 - foundation
8 - the last frame from the nuc
9 - foundation
10 - foundation
A strong nuc can be opened up like this probably in most areas as soon as you get them, assuming they are being produced locally. (You may get a nuc from down south in early April and have them shipped north, but then the weather may be at odds of you breaking open the frames like stated above.)
Then within two weeks, it usually is time enough to add the second brood chamber. And you can remove the center two brood frames from the original bottom box and place them in the center of the new upper box. Many factors go into how many frames to move, whether to move up honey frames, etc. For instance....As a general rule, do not place foundation in between frames of open nectar or uncapped honey.
BjornBee should I still do this even though I transferred the nuc into a standard 10 deep when I got them home last Fri.(April 1st.)?
Sorry but I'm still(not as)confused of exactly how to go about this.
Thanks
Russell
Yes, I would still do this.
BjornBee when you say:
QuoteThen within two weeks, it usually is time enough to add the second brood chamber. And you can remove the center two brood frames from the original bottom box and place them in the center of the new upper box.
Does it matter if one of the 2 brood frames to go into the 2nd deep has the queen on one of them or not or should she be left in the 1st deep?
Does not matter. She will travel to where she wants to go.
Quote from: BjornBee on April 06, 2011, 09:29:52 AM
Does not matter. She will travel to where she wants to go.
Great thanks again
Btw just took a look on them and they have new comb started well and plenty of bees,and it seems as if they have plenty of stores built up,guess they won't need much syrup soon.
Thanks for the information Bjorn.
Tim
Quote from: BjornBee on April 05, 2011, 02:43:32 PM
Bees generally do not make new wax until the temps are above 65 during the day.
I must disagree. Bees will begin building new wax at between 45-50 F during the day as long as their is sufficient bees in the hive to force the population on to new frames. Bees always build new wax under foot, that is, if they have enough population to move to an area where there is no combs they will begin drawing An observation hive is an excellent tool for observing this phenomena.
I must agree w/ Brian this time. We hadn't seen 65 since last October, early November until yesterday and my lone survivor bees have been building comb on the # 1, 2 & 10 frames in their top super for at least a couple weeks now. What a miracle of nature these critters are, especially since I only use foundationless frames and my own bees drawn comb.
thomas
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on April 10, 2011, 10:09:25 PM
Quote from: BjornBee on April 05, 2011, 02:43:32 PM
Bees generally do not make new wax until the temps are above 65 during the day.
I must disagree. Bees will begin building new wax at between 45-50 F during the day as long as their is sufficient bees in the hive to force the population on to new frames. Bees always build new wax under foot, that is, if they have enough population to move to an area where there is no combs they will begin drawing An observation hive is an excellent tool for observing this phenomena.
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on April 10, 2011, 10:09:25 PM
Quote from: BjornBee on April 05, 2011, 02:43:32 PM
Bees generally do not make new wax until the temps are above 65 during the day.
I must disagree. Bees will begin building new wax at between 45-50 F during the day as long as their is sufficient bees in the hive to force the population on to new frames. Bees always build new wax under foot, that is, if they have enough population to move to an area where there is no combs they will begin drawing An observation hive is an excellent tool for observing this phenomena.
:stayontopic: