Put a quart in yesterday...gone today. Hope it's not all leaking away. Put about 5-7 holes in the lid with a finish nail. It isn't very warm, so they are not going far from the hive.
Thanks for any info you can provide.
my 3lb packages are putting almost a quart a day down
For each new package we start, we buy 40 lbs of sugar. This gets the package through spring build-up, summer dearth, and accumulation of winter stores in the fall. It varies based on weather and the characteristics of the hive, but that's a pretty good guess.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 11, 2011, 10:06:13 PM
For each new package we start, we buy 40 lbs of sugar. This gets the package through spring build-up, summer dearth, and accumulation of winter stores in the fall. It varies based on weather and the characteristics of the hive, but that's a pretty good guess.
We bought about 100 lbs for 13 new packages and 6 overwintered hives. Things must be alot different where you live.
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4 lbs bees occupye one langstroth box. It need 10 lbs sugar to draw foundations.
It depends too, do they get nectar outside. Like in Englan canola is just in bloom. They get all from nature.
So, take care that the hive will not beå half full sugar.
The idea is that colony has maximm amount of brood. It need all the time 2 frames of food, and the rest space brood (we hope)
new bees will emerge after 4 weeks. Then the colony starts to grow again.
No need to fill the hive with food for long time.
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S. Oregon forecast promises bad weather for next week. Rain, snow .... Not pollen and nectar.
Quote from: woodchopper on April 17, 2011, 01:19:12 PM
We bought about 100 lbs for 13 new packages and 6 overwintered hives. Things must be alot different where you live.
That covers drawing two deeps of comb since we split in late June. Then we have to feed through the dearth in late July and August so they don't eat up all the honey they just stored. And then feeding sugar through the fall buildup that gets them through winter. We end up with a small amount of honey and two healthy hives one year after installing the package. And we never have to feed again. That 40 lbs cost $20. That's a small price compared to the cost of a package.
There are several differences in climate between us. We have 6 week dearth and a weak fall flow. Without feeding, mid-July is the end of the year's productivity. And our warmer winter paradoxically results in more consumption of stores. Bees in cluster use very little honey but if they are breaking cluster and raising winter brood, that burns up the stores. In the first year, we shoot for raising two hives from each package. After that, we have the critical mass to bring in lots of honey and the bees are self-sufficient from then on, providing one or more splits per year.
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Now it is normal hobby start with a package. Frameshift explains a professional system, where the beekeeper wants too see hives as seldom as possible. no need to mix wintering hive here.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 17, 2011, 11:32:18 PM
Quote from: woodchopper on April 17, 2011, 01:19:12 PM
We bought about 100 lbs for 13 new packages and 6 overwintered hives. Things must be alot different where you live.
In the first year, we shoot for raising two hives from each package. After that, we have the critical mass to bring in lots of honey and the bees are self-sufficient from then on, providing one or more splits per year.
I think this is incredible that you can do this. We know a lot of beeks that do splits but they do them off overwintered hives and a high percentage of them don't make it through the next winter. Also because of the splitting their honey production goes way down.
Quote from: woodchopper on April 18, 2011, 08:25:39 AM
I think this is incredible that you can do this. We know a lot of beeks that do splits but they do them off overwintered hives and a high percentage of them don't make it through the next winter.
I guess you could say that we are focused on raising bees and not getting honey, during the first year. So that's the trade-off. We put in lots of sugar and get little honey the first year. In terms of carbohydrate balance (sugar in.... honey out) , we get a net negative the first year.
But even if you manage for honey the first year, you still don't get much around here because you don't have critical mass to really bring in the honey in June, and you are stuck with lots of foragers in July and August that eat more than they bring in (because of the dearth). Our choice is to either to abandon the foragers and let them die or do a split, feed them sugar, and let them draw comb and raise a new queen. Doing the split is more productive.
In the second year it's the same thing except that you do have critical mass in June and early July. You get lots of honey and you only have to feed sugar to the small splits that get all the late season foragers.
I don't know but I suspect you could do the same thing in Mass. You have a shorter season but you don't have the same dearth. Packages are an attempt to mimic a swarm... but the truth is that swarms are not very successful in the wild on a percentage basis. If you are a hobby beekeeper, you just want to increase your hives up to a certain level that satisfies you and then you can manage for honey.
QuoteAlso because of the splitting their honey production goes way down.
They are splitting before the flow. There is a non-linear relationship between hive population and honey production, I guess that's because there is a base number of house bees needed to care for the maximum number of eggs a queen can lay. Once you get the population above that number, all the extra bees become foragers and you get lots of honey. If they did the split near the end of the flow, they would get honey and splits too. And if they didn't want to feed sugar, they could feed back the honey.... but at least they would have lots of honey to do it with. :-D
Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 18, 2011, 09:44:38 AM
Quote from: woodchopper on April 18, 2011, 08:25:39 AM
I think this is incredible that you can do this. We know a lot of beeks that do splits but they do them off overwintered hives and a high percentage of them don't make it through the next winter.
QuoteAlso because of the splitting their honey production goes way down.
They are splitting before the flow. There is a non-linear relationship between hive population and honey production, I guess that's because there is a base number of house bees needed to care for the maximum number of eggs a queen can lay. Once you get the population above that number, all the extra bees become foragers and you get lots of honey. If they did the split near the end of the flow, they would get honey and splits too. And if they didn't want to feed sugar, they could feed back the honey.... but at least they would have lots of honey to do it with. :-D
Our early Spring flow is started right now. I'm pretty sure most of them do their splits around Memorial Day which is during the flow. We had a longer than usual dry spell last year which may explain why so many of them died.
Quote from: woodchopper on April 18, 2011, 11:20:14 AM
Our early Spring flow is started right now. I'm pretty sure most of them do their splits around Memorial Day which is during the flow. We had a longer than usual dry spell last year which may explain why so many of them died.
Ok, I meant they should do the splits near the end of the main flow, which I would think would be in July where you are (I don't know much about Massachusetts) . The point is to have the largest hive population possible during the main flow. That gives you honey.
After the flow you split and let the foragers go back to a queenless hive. If you take away almost all their honey and much of their drawn comb and just leave them with a frame of open brood and enough honey and pollen to raise a queen, that split will draw comb fast. If there is not enough nectar coming in, feed them sugar. Even if they die out in winter, you have lots of drawn comb to show for it. Or if you have a couple of weak hives, you could re-combine before winter.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 18, 2011, 12:37:17 PM
Quote from: woodchopper on April 18, 2011, 11:20:14 AM
Our early Spring flow is started right now. I'm pretty sure most of them do their splits around Memorial Day which is during the flow. We had a longer than usual dry spell last year which may explain why so many of them died.
Ok, I meant they should do the splits near the end of the main flow, which I would think would be in July where you are (I don't know much about Massachusetts) . The point is to have the largest hive population possible during the main flow. That gives you honey.
After the flow you split and let the foragers go back to a queenless hive. If you take away almost all their honey and much of their drawn comb and just leave them with a frame of open brood and enough honey and pollen to raise a queen, that split will draw comb fast. If there is not enough nectar coming in, feed them sugar. Even if they die out in winter, you have lots of drawn comb to show for it. Or if you have a couple of weak hives, you could re-combine before winter.
Thanks for the clarification. I'd like to try doing it this summer because I do need the drawn out comb.