Hey all thanks for reading and your insight.
I am going to go foundationless and all my frames are wedge top bar frames.
I understand that I can either put in popsickle sticks or turn the wedge on its edge and glue it in that way. What I am curious about is why? Why will it not work to simply brush wax on the top bar as is and let them work down?
Thanks
Lee
Because the bees typically build off an edge or point, and the idea is to put that edge or point in the center of the frame, either with the popcicle stick or the wedge on edge (which ends up slighly off center). This is under ideal conditions with everything level and the bees doing what they are supposed to do. They may also double comb everything and build in waves, bulges, or perpendicular to the frame. I have had good luck with coroplast sign material as a starter, but I'm not a huge foundationless advocate. The wax does nothing, the will build comb from the top down with or without wax on the wood.
Yep, what he said.
The bees have this thing figured out, they use their bodies like a plum bob. Bees on top hold on to the lowest point, and bees underneath hang from their feet/bodies to form a curtain which hangs toward the center of the planet. The bees then produce scales of wax which, as I think I remember and understand it, they grab with their feet and hand up to the bees at the top.
These bees then attach that wax to that point, and mold the wax into the honeycomb cells we associate with beehives. The stick or bar running from one side of the frame to the other helps to guide the bees in making the comb hang in nice even rows, a convenience for the beekeeper.
I've used a strip of toilet paper twisted on my leg to make a kind of string, glued to the top bar with beeswax and trimmed up so there was a straight line about 1/16" (3mm) thick.
If you don't have a distinct center, the comb will not have a distinct center and will wander all over. Waxing is unnecessary and, IMO, counterproductive. An edge or drawn comb on each side IS necessary if you want the comb in the frame.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#combguide (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#combguide)
The Hive MUST be level if not you will be :'(
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Good choice.
If your doing this with deep frames, just stay on top of it.
With mediums, I don't have as many off-center combs.
Quote from: BjornBee on April 13, 2011, 08:55:12 AM
With mediums, I don't have as many off-center combs.
Bjorn, do you have any insights into why this would be? The difference between deep and medium is all at the bottom part of the frame. The tops are the same so you would think the bees would start off the same and be equally on-center.
Your right.
I'm not suggesting anything from the top as both are basically the same. I was referencing the bottom half of the comb where if any variations are to occur, it will be seen there. The longer the comb, the more chance for variation. Once a slight off-center happens or a comb leans to one side, the next comb will be exaggerated more, and so on.
Perhaps from a slightly tilted hive, or just the bees natural comb building blueprint in that they normally do not draw perfect straight comb. They may naturally want to build curved and partial combs in many ways due to air circulation, heat dynamics, defense, etc.
Here is a couple neat pictures...
http://www.bjornapiaries.com/combinformation.html (http://www.bjornapiaries.com/combinformation.html)
Quote from: BjornBee on April 13, 2011, 10:22:58 AM
Here is a couple neat pictures...
http://www.bjornapiaries.com/combinformation.html (http://www.bjornapiaries.com/combinformation.html)
Ok, I understand what you mean about deeps having more chance for variations in comb than mediums do. But in the link you provide, there is this statement about adding medium frames to deep boxes:
Placing a few medium frames in your deep brood chamber will result in the bees many times making drone comb. As long as you go in and cut off the bottom comb in a timely manner, this is a very effective mite control procedure.
I understand that you mean to cut off the comb below the bottom bar. Are you saying that the bees are more likely to draw drone comb below the bar than above it? I wonder why they would do that?
That page has several key points.
That picture merely depicts that if you place a medium frame with drawn comb into the middle of your deep brood chamber, that the bees will almost always draw drone comb below the bottom bar to fill in the void.
For those wanting to do drone trapping, and not remove, freeze, or rotate in a couple different drone frames, this way of producing drone comb is easy and somewhat efficient. You simply pull the frame out, cut off the drone comb, and replace back in the hive. The BEST place to do this is in the bottom brood box, as they stop the comb and do not attach it to the bottom. If you do this in the second brood box, they will fill in the area and then attach the comb to the frame below the void area, making the drone comb removal a bit of a mess.
Looking at making some foundationless frames and have a few designs in mind. What do you think about these profiles for the top bars?
http://www.alphahybrids.com/Media/topbar.jpg (http://www.alphahybrids.com/Media/topbar.jpg)
Any of those will work fine. I fond of a triangle. I'd make whatever is the easiest with the equipment you have.