I've got a hive with a laying worker. I'll do a shake out on this hive this weekend as she's effectively killed the one queen I put in there as well as the capped queen cells I put in there. As I look over the frames to review brood and any egg patterns I can't help but wonder what a laying worker looks like. Does anyone have, or know of a photo of a laying worker?
No photo, but remember that if you have one laying worker, you probably have more than one.
laying workers. they look like workers.
Quote from: kathyp on May 20, 2011, 01:22:38 PM
laying workers. they look like workers.
Now kathy, your not saying that a women is a women, even if one is not pregnant, and the other is squeezing out a kid. I think I could certainly tell the difference beyond both being women. I bet I could guess which is plopping out a kid, and which one isn't. :-D
Bees on the other hand.... :roll:
Quote from: BjornBee on May 20, 2011, 04:17:17 PM
Now kathy, your not saying that a women is a women, even if one is not pregnant, and the other is squeezing out a kid. I think I could certainly tell the difference beyond both being women. Bees on the other hand.... :roll:
here is a prone worker :shock:
(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/250916_1883787906735_1602502171_31915317_6688224_n.jpg)
Prone not to bee confused with Laying worker :-D
just do a search of DOT workers :-D probably alot of them on google
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab277/hardwood01/layingworkercomb001.jpg (http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab277/hardwood01/layingworkercomb001.jpg)
Scott
BTW, the posted link shows multiple eggs on the cell floors. The comb wasn't fully drawn and the laying worker(s) could reach the bottom. Elsewhere the eggs were stuck to the cell walls.
Scott
(http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/beekeepr2/th_check002.jpg) (http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n497/beekeepr2/check002.jpg?t=1305943419)
no comment
Shaking out is a lot of work for nothing unless you want to scrap the hive and forget it.
http://bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#shakingout (http://bushfarms.com/beesfallacies.htm#shakingout)
http://bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm (http://bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm)
http://bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm (http://bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm)
If you want to know how many laying workers you have in a hive count the number of eggs in each cell, thats the number for that area of the hive. Laying workers do not generally move from one brood box to another so if there are multiple eggs in the cells in multiple boxes count the number of eggs in the cells and multiply by the number of boxes showing eggs. That will give you a low estimate.
I didn't realize there's more than one laying worker when this occurs. I learn something every day. Thanks for all the replies!
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 21, 2011, 07:38:12 PM
If you want to know how many laying workers you have in a hive count the number of eggs in each cell, thats the number for that area of the hive. Laying workers do not generally move from one brood box to another so if there are multiple eggs in the cells in multiple boxes count the number of eggs in the cells and multiply by the number of boxes showing eggs. That will give you a low estimate.
So Brian, you are saying that each egg in a cell comes from a different laying worker? How can you be sure that they don't all come from the same laying worker? New queens sometimes lay more than one egg in a cell, so I would think a laying worker might do the same thing.
Quote from: hardwood on May 20, 2011, 10:06:53 PM
http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab277/hardwood01/layingworkercomb001.jpg (http://i871.photobucket.com/albums/ab277/hardwood01/layingworkercomb001.jpg)
Scott
Thats a great one Scott. I am saving this to show the beeks around here who are new to beekeeping.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on May 24, 2011, 01:31:18 PM
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 21, 2011, 07:38:12 PM
If you want to know how many laying workers you have in a hive count the number of eggs in each cell, thats the number for that area of the hive. Laying workers do not generally move from one brood box to another so if there are multiple eggs in the cells in multiple boxes count the number of eggs in the cells and multiply by the number of boxes showing eggs. That will give you a low estimate.
So Brian, you are saying that each egg in a cell comes from a different laying worker? How can you be sure that they don't all come from the same laying worker? New queens sometimes lay more than one egg in a cell, so I would think a laying worker might do the same thing.
Laying workers act just like real queens, they might shoot a few extra eggs when they first begin laying but after that they usually lay only one per cell. So, to answer your question, Yes!
Laying workers don't give off the same phenomones that a queen does, so as time progresses there will be more and more laying workers in the hive. You will also notice that one box might have 10-12 eggs in each cell while the other box has only 5-6 in each cell, the total number of queens, by conservative count would be 15-18.
The one thing I haven't been able to determine yet is whether a laying worker confines itself to a single comb, which would multiply the total number of laying workers by the number of frames containing eggs. That is, number of eggs per cell would indicate how many laying workers per frame, then each frames total times the number of frames.
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 26, 2011, 11:51:46 PM
You will also notice that one box might have 10-12 eggs in each cell while the other box has only 5-6 in each cell,
I've never had laying workers so I didn't know that each cell has the same number of eggs. I guess that is pretty good evidence that there is one egg from each laying worker. That seems more likely than the idea that a single laying worker would lay the same number of eggs in each cell.
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 26, 2011, 11:51:46 PM
Laying workers act just like real queens, they might shoot a few extra eggs when they first begin laying but after that they usually lay only one per cell.
Well, they don't act quite like real queens, since they are laying their single egg in a cell that already contains eggs. If they can't tell that other eggs are present, you might expect that they would lay multiple eggs even where they have already laid one. How can they tell they have already laid an egg in a cell if there are 10 other eggs in that cell?
They can tell which cell they lay eggs in, they just can't tell if another bee has laid eggs in the same cell. It's a combination fo Algebra and phenomones.
I disagree with the shaking out of the hive. Ive done it and it works...and ive done it and it doesnt.... yes its a P.I.A but to say that it just leads to scrapping the hive I disagree. The great thing about this forum is you get alot of ideas and you need to try what you feel comfortable with. you can also try using an queen introduction cage so that she starts laying brood while still confined and see if that helps with an introduction.
Laying workers are tough to deal with thats for sure!
i wouldn't bother shaking unless i were removing the hive. the advantage to it is that you save the existing bees and they strengthen other hives. if you going to try to let them return to their own hives, you will probably fail and lose the bees anyway.
other methods take to long for my short season, so shaking is my best option....maybe not for others.