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BEEKEEPING LEARNING CENTER => GENERAL BEEKEEPING - MAIN POSTING FORUM. => Topic started by: cowboygourmet on June 02, 2011, 09:16:58 AM

Title: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: cowboygourmet on June 02, 2011, 09:16:58 AM
For several years now I have used medium supers as hive bodies and for supers.  They are lighter to pick up and it keeps my apiary equipment of like kind so that there are not so many different sizes and shapes.  Is there anyone else out in the bee world that has done the same thing?  :?  ;)
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: D Coates on June 02, 2011, 09:28:59 AM
Yep, I know of plenty.  I prefer the deeps as hive bodies but to each his own.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Riggs on June 02, 2011, 09:32:30 AM
I use all 8 frame mediums. Everything is the same size, lighter ect. My grandfather likes to try to help and at 85 yrs old, the lighter weight suits him better. Hopefully in a few years my kids will take an intrest in it too and I thought the weight and simplicity might be better for them as well.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Jim134 on June 02, 2011, 10:02:35 AM
Quote from: cowboygourmet on June 02, 2011, 09:16:58 AM
For several years now I have used medium supers as hive bodies and for supers.  They are lighter to pick up and it keeps my apiary equipment of like kind so that there are not so many different sizes and shapes.  Is there anyone else out in the bee world that has done the same thing?  :?  ;)

   Yes
 
   Been use 10 frame mediums 1985 to present



   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Irina on June 02, 2011, 10:10:49 AM
I currently use the deep bodies, and I also want to switch to all mediums.
What is the best transition for the existing hives? Time of the year, etc.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Jim134 on June 02, 2011, 10:56:11 AM
Quote from: vikoch on June 02, 2011, 10:10:49 AM
I currently use the deep bodies, and I also want to switch to all mediums.
What is the best transition for the existing hives? Time of the year, etc.
Thanks.


Now


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: L Daxon on June 02, 2011, 10:57:19 AM
I, along with many others on this site, use nothing but 8 frame mediums. I even use medium nucs. Weight is certainly an issue, but I also like having ALL the frames the same size.  Makes frame manipulation so much easier. If I need to pull a frame of honey out of a super to feed to a brood box/nuc somewhere, no conflict about size. Don't ever have to worry about mismatched equipment available.  Everything is interchangeable.  Makes a lot more sense to me.

Vikoch,
How many hives are you having to switch?

Linda D
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Grid on June 02, 2011, 11:06:06 AM
I am in the process of switching my hives over to 10-frame mediums.  The weight difference is significant enough for me.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Irina on June 02, 2011, 11:25:29 AM
I have 4 hives, and they all have a lot of brood an storage.
If I switch, what is the best way to do a switch?
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: AllenF on June 02, 2011, 03:57:17 PM
I use deeps for brood and shallows for honey supers.   And I still think shallows full of honey are heavy to lift around.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: VolunteerK9 on June 02, 2011, 04:09:20 PM
Ive got some 'all-medium' hives and some that are a deep-shallow configuration. I think I like the deep-shallow better but my opinions of them keep changing. There are pros and cons of both. For poops and giggles Im going to put together an all deep hive next year. (Ive got a good chiropractor)
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Kathyp on June 02, 2011, 04:16:17 PM
i have stuck with deeps for hive bodies.  that's what i got a lot of when i started and bought bulk stuff from other beekeepers.  i also find deeps better for swarm catching and once in there, no point in moving them.  i don't do much lifting of hive bodies and when i do, i just pull some frames first. 
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: bailey on June 02, 2011, 11:08:30 PM
all med for me except the hives jp sends my way. i try to convert them all to meds as well.

bailey
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Grid on June 02, 2011, 11:27:13 PM
Quote from: vikoch on June 02, 2011, 11:25:29 AM
I have 4 hives, and they all have a lot of brood an storage.
If I switch, what is the best way to do a switch?

Not sure about the "best" way, but I have been gradually adding medium supers under the deeps, about 1 a week.  After 2 mediums, I try to get the queen into the lower 2 mediums - can be easy if you find her, otherwise I remove all the deep supers, and brush the bees off each frame into the mediums.  Then I put an excluder between the mediums and the deeps.  Another week, I add another medium under the others.  Another week, I remove the excluder.

Grid
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Michael Bush on June 03, 2011, 02:18:22 AM
I've used everything from 12 frame Dadant deeps to eight frame mediums.  I mostly had deeps and shallows.  I've cut them all down to mediums and all down to eight frames.  It was worth the work.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: cowboygourmet on June 04, 2011, 10:24:07 AM
Quote from: Michael Bush on June 03, 2011, 02:18:22 AM
I've used everything from 12 frame Dadant deeps to eight frame mediums.  I mostly had deeps and shallows.  I've cut them all down to mediums and all down to eight frames.  It was worth the work.
Michael,  when you use 8 frame mediums are you using a spacer at each side?
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: AllenF on June 04, 2011, 10:55:17 AM
Cut the box down so it will only hold 8 frames.   Narrower box.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Shanevrr on June 04, 2011, 11:32:50 PM
Quote from: Michael Bush on June 03, 2011, 02:18:22 AM
I've used everything from 12 frame Dadant deeps to eight frame mediums.  I mostly had deeps and shallows.  I've cut them all down to mediums and all down to eight frames.  It was worth the work.

Why do you do this? Didnt even know they had 12 frame boxes
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: preston39 on June 04, 2011, 11:38:29 PM
I am approaching confusion...Isn't all the Lang boxes the same wideth x length...just deep...was the difference?  If not I have a ? or two.
Thought I had it figured out. Hum!
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: AllenF on June 05, 2011, 12:00:51 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langstroth_hive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langstroth_hive)  Rev. Langstroth  figured out bee space and designed the hive boxes that we use.   Dadant is the type/ style of frame we use today.   Using these 2 we can build anything we want like a lang box that will hod 10 or 8 or 5 frames.   It is all about bee space and what we can make. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Langstroth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Langstroth)  on the man

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadant_%26_Sons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadant_%26_Sons)

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/double-deep-frames/ (http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/double-deep-frames/)   Really cool.   Are you still using theses Robo?
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: AllenF on June 05, 2011, 12:02:38 AM
Suppliers also sell 10 and 8 frame equipment   http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Hive-Bodies-and-Supers/departments/16/ (http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Hive-Bodies-and-Supers/departments/16/)   
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Michael Bush on June 05, 2011, 12:15:00 AM
>Michael,  when you use 8 frame mediums are you using a spacer at each side?

No.  I'm using boxes that are 13 3/4" wide and I shave the frames down to 1 1/4" and put 9 of them in the eight frame box.

>Why do you do this? Didnt even know they had 12 frame boxes

I don't know of anyplace to buy them except Europe now.  But at one time it was the VHS/Beta Max contest except in beekeeping L.L. Langstroth believe 10 - 9 1/4" frames was enough for a brood nest, while C.P. Dadant believed they needed 12 - 11 1/4" frames for a brood nest.  As it turns out Dadant was correct and Langstroth was wrong, but the Langstroth caught on and people made up the difference for the mistake by using two boxes instead of one.  In Europe the 12 frame 11 5/8" boxes are still very popular.  They have all but died out in the US.

>am approaching confusion...Isn't all the Lang boxes the same wideth x length...just deep...was the difference?  If not I have a ? or two.

I have two, three, four, five, eight, ten, twelve, twenty two, and thirty three frame boxes in extra shallow (4 3/4") shallow (5 3/4") medium (6 5/8") deep (9 5/8") and Dadant deep (11 5/8") depths.  Granted most of the deeps are now cut down to mediums and most of the ten frames are cut down to eight.

What are commonly available are four, five, eight and ten frame boxes.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: Brian D. Bray on June 06, 2011, 09:38:35 PM
Quote from: preston39 on June 04, 2011, 11:38:29 PM
I am approaching confusion...Isn't all the Lang boxes the same wideth x length...just deep...was the difference?  If not I have a ? or two.
Thought I had it figured out. Hum!

A little history lesson:
Back in By gone days there were 4 basic widths for beehives:  5 frame nucleus hive, 8 frame (garden), 10 frame (American Standard), and 12 frame (Imperial).
Over the years there have developed a number of box depths:  Dadant Deep, Standard Deep, Western (aka 3/4), medium (aka Illinois), shallow, and comb (aka box or chunk honey).

Both the Dadant Deep box and the 12 frame Imperial hives have favor and are nearly impossible to find.

5 frame nucs are usually available in medium or standard deep depths.
8 frame garden hives are available in standard deep, western, illinois, shallow and comb depths.
10 frame American Standard and the 12 frame Imperial hives are/were available in; Dadant deep, Standard deep, western, medium, shallow, and comb dept boxes.

Over my time as a beekeeper I've used or been exposed to each variation described above.
A 12 frame Dadant Deep was impossibe to lift without some type of assistance, it was essentially 20W X 20L X 14D and weighed about 180-200 lbs when full of honey and bees.  The outside frames either weren't used by the bees, or if coaxed to use them, left to sour (ferment and mold in the comb), as a consequence the 12 frame hive fell out of favor during the great depression.
The Dadant Deep (essentially the same as a standard deep plus a medium) fell out of favor for several of the same reasons as the 12 frame Imperial, but mainly it was just too heavy to handle without assistance.
Title: Re: Medium supers for hive bodies?
Post by: L Daxon on June 07, 2011, 12:13:26 AM
Brian,

Love the history lesson.  I always learn a lot from your posts.

Linda D