This is kind of involved and I'm not quite sure what I'm asking.
I had two hives set side by side, one remained gentle, while the second turned hot as the dickens. This hive was started from a nuc, so had a large population, and was putting on plenty of stores. It started with a guard investigating, then stinging me on the shoulder unprovoked. I managed to get into the hive without gear once, then anything I did was wrong. Once I got into the brood box, I was marked for life.
I couldn't walk across the barnyard without being divebombed, sometimes 75 feet from the hive. I had one follow me around 400 ft through the trees and got stung at least once a day. All that I could do was to move it off into the trees, around 100 ft from the original location. I knew I would get some drift, I was hoping they would go to an empty nuc I put in that position. It worked once, then they drifted to the hive next to it. This hive WAS a little nuc with just 5 frames drawn. Once the population increased there was so little room they hung from all the openings in huge beards.
That was disappointing, I had to dodge the evil bees for another week while they calmed down. I split the mean hive, bought a local queen, placed her in the half without a queen, and decided I would keep the evil bees after all, as they demonstrate cleaning behavior I will need.
Funny thing is the bees that drifted calmed considerably. In the period between my popping the super off the brood box and them going nuts on my gloves, veil, and stinging me through my pants, to now, about 3 weeks, they became fairly docile. When I breathe through the screen over the hole in the inner cover, they buzz their warning and go back to work. The neurotic hive, on the other hand, will BUZZ!!! and run all over the top bars.
These are bees from the same queen, but from different hives. My question seems to be, "Is it possible the pheromones of the colony as a whole have something to do with their collective behavior?" Would a hive with a different set of characteristics have the tendency or ability to calm neurotic behavior in a substantial (50 to 75%) population of adopted members?
Bump people, I'm serious.
I realize the brood would have hatched. I was in the brood nest yesterday and the day before, which is why I decided to ask.
i don't know, but i have something similar. i had a hive i started from a nuc last year that was gentl as can be. i could go right up to their entance without incident. this year i hived a package next to them and all of a sudden i was being attacked although not quite as bad as you. i assumed it was the older hive because i did adjust their cover right before i was attacked initially. turns out it was the new package. whenever i got into their brood nest i was a marked man also. they were going like gangbusters and i think there has been some drift from the original hive which would obviously be helping them out.but a few months later they seem to have mellowed i went through the entire hive yesterday with only a couple of headbutts. a few weeks ago one in particular headbutted me about 20 times in 10 seconds.
i'm not sure what to make of my situation either.
I have read numerous accounts of aggressive colonies calming down within a day or so of pinching the evil queen and replacing her. So, while it may be six-plus weeks for the bee population to turn over, it seems to be that the changes in pheromones associated with a new queen can change the colony's personality within a very short time.
How close together are the hives? Hives so close together that the orientation flights can cause ending up in the wrong hive (which would be viewed as a robber attact) could be a possibility.
There are a lot of factors, besides the queen temperment, that can make a hive agressive.
Hives too close together can be one of those factors, move each hive 3 feet further away from the other in relation to their current location.
Angle the entrances away from each other.
Can critters or birds easily feed on the bees? Nocturnal feedings by opossum, skunks, or raccoons can make a hive testy.
Are the hives located where livestock can use them as rubbing posts?
From which direction comes the wind and can said wind blow disturbing odors towars the hives?
Rule out those questions, any more you can think of before deciding to off the queen.
Hello Brian!
QuoteHow close together are the hives? Hives so close together that the orientation flights can cause ending up in the wrong hive (which would be viewed as a robber attact) could be a possibility.
That might have been so. The two colonies were set side by side, however the defensive one was the strongest by far.
QuoteThere are a lot of factors, besides the queen temperment, that can make a hive agressive.
Hives too close together can be one of those factors, move each hive 3 feet further away from the other in relation to their current location.
The behavior I'm describing in this thread is something that couldn't be because of this, they are now separated by a hundred or more feet. I couldn't take the Kamikaze attitude and moved them in the trees where the only time they'd see a human was when Bubba comes to cut the hay.
(http://www.captainchicken.com/pictures/moved2.jpg)
QuoteCan critters or birds easily feed on the bees? Nocturnal feedings by opossum, skunks, or raccoons can make a hive testy.
Good question. I have them on cinder blocks with 4 x 4s holding them off the ground. Bottom board is around knee height. I've not seen any birds, but there could be possum. I see no indication of animals going for them because I have my worm beds in the barn right next to the "From" arrow. Nobody has been digging the garbage out of the bedding lately.
QuoteAre the hives located where livestock can use them as rubbing posts?
There haven't been any cows on this land for more than 30 years.
QuoteFrom which direction comes the wind and can said wind blow disturbing odors towars the hives?
This could be a factor, I compost about 50 ft. away from where they were. Grass clippings "hot" composting smell an awful lot like cow manure. The hive they drifted to is still there, and now has a full super. 4 frames are still undrawn in the deep.
I've decided
not to requeen that colony. I will keep the population down, and try to incorporate the cleaning behavior to whatever feral stock I collect. I've watched them attack the SHB, which is a real problem here, ants, and ME!!!
You can see why I would like them to be good bees with a different colony. When the field bees drifted into the gentle hive, changed their behavior and are now mellow enough I can stand close to them 12 hours after I dig through their brood nest, and act more like I want, I start getting that itch that keeps me in trouble.
Indy, and Bulldog, thank you for the input. It seems I'm going to be searching around and looking for some answers. I don't know quite how I can use this information yet.
CapnChkn, please keep us updated with your results of setting the hives further apart. Brian's wonderful suggestions really jumped out at me. I'm also curious to know your results, because I also posed a question awhile back about whether the issue of side by side hives also encouraged robbing and fighting amongst hives as opposed to more spread out hives and likewise with the aggressive behaviors.
And yes, the mammal invaders are also a very strong possibility. So glad Brian brought that up!