Hey was just thinking the big thing about spring is getting the colonies built up for the flow..... what if you took several frames of brood from now, and froze them till next spring...... could you thaw the brood and have them survive.... ya know kinda like gold fish in a pond or frogs....as they freeze and do not die..... Ideas?
Would you come back to life if someone froze you.......DON'T THINK SO! An neither will the eggs or larva.
Here is why it doesn't work when frozen water produces sharp crystals. Imagine if you will a tiny cell full of water now imagine a bunch of little crystals pearcing the cell wall from the freezing process. The faster you can freeze the water the less cell damage but as of yet nobody has been able to freeze grandma or bee brood in the deep freeze out back and bring them back to life. Please do not try and put grandma in the freezer just to prove me wrong. :evil:
If that were the case, there would be no such thing as overwintering losses. It would be cheaper to buy a huge freezer and freeze all your hives than take your chances and buy new bees every spring! I think overwintering in a basement is a better idea if you want to experiment. It may have been on here where I saw someone modify a basement window. They had tube entrances to each hive that ran to the window. Evidently it worked!
True, water expands when it freezes and can burst cell walls. However LOTS of bugs overwinter in Michigan and we get well below 32F in the winter. An example would be our native silk moths (Luna, Polyphemus, Cecropia).
Like bees, the silk moths start out as eggs, hatch into worms, shed their skin 5 times and pupate before metamorphous into an adult moth. The pupae of these giant silk moths pupate ABOVE ground in the winter so they are exposed to a full -20F during some winters here.
Evidently God decided to design some creatures to withstand the cold, and others that can't. It a safe bet that bee pupae would NOT survive a winter in the freezer! They wouldn't even survive near freezing for long (see threads on chilled brood).
Interesting idea, but I think it would be more fruitful to experiment along other lines.
Where is FINSKI ?
""Please do not try and put grandma in the freezer just to prove me wrong. evil ""
No, use mother-in-law, instead, for the testing. :evil: :evil: :evil:
I think your biggest problem would be that they would die before their temp got down to freezing. Nitrogen freezing may work, but even if it did, thawing would kill them under normal temps.
No I know it wont work for us.... But for other animals it does , as the example of the gold fish in the pond.... So it does work for some animals and insects.....
frozen frogs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjr3A_kfspM#)
Ok, Wood frogs and Pine trees, certain insects that have enzymes that work as an anti-freeze, but not fish. If you ask any of the fishermen from up north, when you break the ice you might find a fish right there, glazed eyes, rolling over into the deep.
Fish can survive being frozen IN ice, but not frozen TO ice. Once their bodies freeze, they're not coming back.
Amazing video! Didn't know that about wood frogs. Larry
Quote from: iddee on July 08, 2011, 11:51:59 PM
No, use mother-in-law, instead, for the testing. :evil: :evil: :evil:
:evil:
LOL :evil:
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
If frozen brood could be brought back to life, we would take dead outs and combine them in the spring to build up hives. But we can't, just won't work. But I do like the thinking here. This question is what this forum is all about.
has anyone ever tried?
What about when you freeze drone brood to kill mites? I think it has been done a lot.
Just to set the record straight, there is evidence that this should work! Even on a grander scale than we are envisioning, though the resulting bees might need some remedial training...
Iceman movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaNfX1oKan4#)
FWIW,
Ed
:-D
Quote from: AllenF on July 09, 2011, 09:54:13 AM
What about when you freeze drone brood to kill mites? I think it has been done a lot.
yes you freeze the drone brood to kill mites.... then do you scrape the apparent dead brood off, or just put them back in the hive.....????
Just put them back in. The bees will open and clean out the dead, or you can open them if you want to help them out.
hmmmm. .... I need an experiment for a senior paper anyways......
found this ...it is a bunch of morons but the idea is there , they freeze a bee and tie a string to it, then the bee revives and they have a bee on a leash..... Moron might have been a strong term to use ...LOL
bee on a leash (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4RMKKCaHk0#)
Think about when you test for hygiene in bees. You freeze a circle of brood with nitrogen and see how the bees clean up the dead brood.
Animals that can survive freezing temperatures for long periods are adapted to do it. Most of them have a form of natural antifreeze in their body fluids that prevent the formation of the ice crystals. Bees can't do this, they took a different route to get through the Winter. Good thing they did or we would have no honey and not be having this conversation! Goldfish in the pond don't freeze either - if they are there in the Spring it is because there was liquid water under the ice somewhere. If they freeze they die like the bees and us.
JC
Here in SW FL it never freezes, but if the brood just get chilled they die. I've had dead brood dumped in front of my hives after just a cold snap.