Several weeks ago I posted about our honey/pollen bound hive, the bees not moving upwards and working the medium super, and numerous swarm cells that were found. That post is here as well as what we did to 'correct' the problem . . .
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,33816.msg278532.html#msg278532 (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,33816.msg278532.html#msg278532)
After doing some of the manipulations that were recommended, we waited a week to see if comb was beginning to be drawn out. It wasn't. Another week and we checked again and still no more comb was drawn out (not even in the undrawn frames in the 2nd hive body that were moved inwards.) We did see some eggs during this quick inspection.
It has been very hot (mid to upper 90's with heat indexes in the 100's) and dry here for about a month now so I assumed that the lack of drawing out comb was due to the heat and not having a nectar flow. But since we saw eggs, we assumed that things were still all right in the hive.
Now three weeks after the initial manipulations, we did a full inspection in both hive body deeps to see what was going on in the hive and we found . . .
--no new comb had been drawn out since the initial manipulation three weeks ago
--the bees are no longer honey and pollen bound (they must be consuming their stores)
-there were several frames of capped brood
-there were only a few cells with larvae that we could see
-there were NO EGGS
-there was no sight of a queen
-there were a few queen cells – the open ones had no eggs in them. Some looked like they were shriveled up, and one large one looked like the very end had been torn off. I think I might have seen one or two that were capped, but I am not for sure.
-the hive population still seems to be quite high
-the bees seem very calm
-and they are bringing in some pollen and I think nectar as well as there were some cells that had nectar in them.
My guess is: the hive swarmed. And now we're either queenless or there is a virgin queen in there somewhere. If the latter is true, I sure hope we didn't kill her in our inspection today! (Oh, and just a note, our bees are Carniolans.)
So for all of you seasoned beekeepers, what should we do? Should we order a new queen and attempt to requeen the hive? Should we wait to see if a virgin queen begins laying?
I sure wish we had frames of brood from another hive that we could put in to prevent a laying worker situation, but unfortunately, we don't.
Anyway . . . any help or advice that you all would like to share would be very much appreciated!
the brood should keep you from developing laying workers for now.
fastest way to know if you are queenless is to take a frame of eggs/very small larvae and put it in the hive. if they start queen cells, they are most likely queenless. if they don't, you probably have a queen in there.
if they start cells you can decide what you want to do...what you have time to do in your area. here, i would probably order a queen quickly and when she comes, pull the cells and introduce her. or...combine the hive with another and do a split next spring.
in the south you have more time.....but i don't know if you have drones.
it sounds like there is no flow in your area. if that is the case, the queen may have backed off laying for a period of time. she'll pick up again when there is some flow.
>-there were a few queen cells – the open ones had no eggs in them. Some looked like they were shriveled up, and one large one looked like the very end had been torn off. I think I might have seen one or two that were capped, but I am not for sure.
- Open cells with no eggs are Queen cups not cells no worry there
- Good to know if you indeed had capped queen cells
- The very end had been torn off- Torn as in destroyed as you moved frames and larvae in it or open cell that looks thinner @ the end with ragged edges where queen hatched
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3EzIevsmfJQ/TZ8jEInpGSI/AAAAAAAABO0/cc0YeZcTayw/s1600/Close+up+of+hatched+queen+cell.png (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3EzIevsmfJQ/TZ8jEInpGSI/AAAAAAAABO0/cc0YeZcTayw/s1600/Close+up+of+hatched+queen+cell.png)
No capped queen cells, no hatched queen cell, and no reduction in strength --- I would say cut back laying during dearth. Other clues above may lead to a different senerio as in virgin queen. Need to weigh all the evidence.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm)
Sounds like you have a virgin queen. Since you don't have any eggs from another hive to test with, you should just wait and see if you get brood in about 3 weeks. That still gives you time to get a new queen and have a Fall buildup before Winter. Or before then you may have eggs from another hive to use to raise a new queen.
The heat could be affecting both queen laying and nectur production. Do you have another colony to borrow from if neccessary?
Like FRAMEshift says, I also think you may have a virgin and therefor have a little time for development.
thomas
i dont see how you can have a virgin queen when there is brood and larva.
Quote from: Shanevrr on July 27, 2011, 10:49:29 PM
i dont see how you can have a virgin queen when there is brood and larva.
You get a virgin queen 16 days after her egg is laid. Worker brood takes 21 days to emerge, so you could easily have a virgin queen 5 days before all the worker brood emerged. The gap could be much more than 5 days if the queen continued to lay worker eggs after the egg for the new queen was laid.
If it is a swarm situation, the old queen leaves about the time the queen cell is capped. A worker egg laid that day would still be a larva 8 days later when the virgin queen emerged.
And of course, if it's a supercedure, the old queen could still be laying eggs when the virgin emerges.
o i see, she may have a new queen, and has not mated yet.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm)
Quote from: Shanevrr on July 27, 2011, 11:35:55 PM
o i see, she may have a new queen, and has not mated yet.
She may have a new queen. You would have to ask her if she has mated yet. :-D
Thank you everyone for your replies! They were appreciated.
Sc-bee . . . thank you for sharing the link to the hatched queen cell - it looks very similar to what I had seen in the hive. So it appears that there is likely a virgin queen in there somewhere.
I do not have another hive from which to borrow frames, so the option of putting in a frame of brood and eggs isn't possible for me unfortunately. So I guess I just need to wait a couple of weeks and see what happens. Hopefully when we open up the hive again there will be eggs and larva!
Sarah,
You are learning why it is important if you are going to keep bees as a hobby, you should have at least two hives.
I got a long for years with just one hive, but that was before varroa, and before the internet where I have learned what beeKEEPING is all about. In 8 years I never had my hive go queenless. Just lucky, I guess.
I now have 3 hives and being able to compare what each hive is doing and being able to manipulate frames between them when I need to has been wonderful.
As for the condition of your hive in this heat, I am somewhat nextdoor to you in Oklahoma where it has been even hotter than where you are. There has definitely been a slow down in activity, i.e. building comb, producing brood, etc. Like the rest of us, I think the girls just hunker down in the heat. My guess is you probably have a queen in there, either virgin or taking a break to beat the heat. If it were me, I'd give them a frame of eggs just as a precaution. But since you don't have another hive to borrow from, I'd give it another week. Then if you don't see larva or eggs, I'd order a new queen pronto. Good luck.