Hi all. If there is anybody that deserves the title of newbie, it's me. So please be patient and if you do use acronyms in your responses to my questions, please tell me what they mean. I am a fast learner, but don't take it for granted that I know anything about bee keeping. Everything I know about bees comes from a documentary that I watched when I was a kid 40 years ago.
I am not really sure where to start so I think the best way to ask my questions, is to tell you what my situation is and why I am thinking about getting into bee keeping. So here goes. I am the director of life rehabilitation facility in a remote rural area north of Abilene, TX. Our program helps people get free of drugs, alcohol and other addictions and start a new life. Because I have lived in third world countries most of my life (My dad was a missionary), I have a lot of experience living like people used to live 100 years ago in this country. I have used this knowledge to create this rehab facility to mimic this very old but simple and basic style of living, because I believe it to be and it has proven to be enormously effective in helping people come to grips with reality and begin the serious work of living an addiction free life. Our facility is nonprofit and we do not charge anything for our program, but function entirely off of donations. This is important to know because we have limited funds to invest in extra stuff out side out the main camp function which rehabilitating people. This being said, it is my goal to move our facility to become as self sufficient as possible and I would love it if bee keeping could play a part in this. We already grow and store vegetables and fruit every year for the facility and I know that one function of bees could be better pollination.
One of the reasons I started thinking about bees is because we already have some abandoned hives on our property. At some point in time in the past someone had quite a few active hives here. But most of the boxes have fallen apart except for two of them that are barley holding together, but still have bees in them. They must be doing okay because I have seen them split (when part of the hive goes and starts a new colony) every year for the last 3 years. Most of the new colonies moved off our land but one moved into a old tire about 300 feet from the old hive boxes. So I have three colonies that I could capture quite easily (I am hoping). We walk by them all the time within feet of them and no one has ever been stung so I think they are pretty tame. I have even operated tractors and mowers right next to them and it did not seem to bother them. Also, it is my belief (I am probably wrong) that since these bees have survived in this area with no care for all these years, they would be easier to take care of and less delicate then bees I would buy from somewhere else.
So I guess my questions are these.
1. How much money (basic estimate) am I looking at to do this? I am talking the entire shebang here, from capturing to be keeping (3 hives) to collecting honey.
2. How much honey can I expect to get from three hives and how often?
3. The bees will mostly be making honey from native pants and a variety of garden plants. Will this honey be any good?
4. Since I am not looking to do this as a hobby, but for honey production, is it worth my effort to get into it if I plan to just keep a few hives?
Thanks for the help.
jungleexplorer......
Welcome to Beemaster
Put in your location: in your profile it will help out a lot. Or are you Hopelessly Lost :? You can get a lot of help hear. I have lived in a third world country in North African as beekeeper in Peace Corps 83-85 .
This may help you
Texas Beekeepers Assocition
http://www.texasbeekeepers.org/ (http://www.texasbeekeepers.org/)
ALAMO AREA BKPRS ASSOC
Ron Schmidt
Phone: 830-625-4997
Email:
[email protected] CENTRAL TEXAS BKPRS ASSOC
Michael Kelling
Phone: (979) 277-0411
Email:
[email protected] www.centraltexasbeekeepers.org (http://www.centraltexasbeekeepers.org)
EAST TEXAS BKPRS ASSOC (ETBA)
Richard Counts
16239 Audry Lane
Arp, TX 75750
Phone: (903) 566-6789
H.O.T. BKPRS ASSOC (Waco, Tx area)
P.O. Box 211
Hewitt, Texas 76643
Gary Bowles (treasurer)
PH 214 232 9858
[email protected] METRO BKPRS ASSOC
Terry Botkin - President
214-837-7256
http://www.metrobeekeepers.net/ (http://www.metrobeekeepers.net/)
WEATHERFORD / PARKER CO BKPRS
Jason Smith
Phone: 817-597-5922
1014 Charles St.
Weatherford, TX 76086
[email protected] We meet the first Tuesday of the each month at 6:30pm until 8pm
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Like Jim's indicated, local beekeepers could be a big help to you.
My $0.02:
>>1. How much money (basic estimate) am I looking at to do this? I am talking the entire shebang here, from >>capturing to be keeping (3 hives) to collecting honey.
It depends on what materials and skills you can draw on. Since you are proficient at making do the old fashioned way, you can save a lot of money if you want.
You will need some basic tools (hive tool, smoker - ~$30) and at minimum a veil for each person who will work the bees (from practically free if you have the materials to make your own to $20 for a basic veil to $100-200 for a good jacket and veil combo). You'll need new hives (free except labor if you have scrap wood on hand and can build your own, ~$300 total if you can assemble from ordered parts, twice that if you buy them pre-built). You'll need stain or paint. You'll need frames (free as above, or $90 purchased). If you want foundation, that's more, but you don't absolutely have to have it. Ditto for a few feet of #8 hardware cloth. You'll need some rubber bands for moving comb from the tire or the most rotted of the old frames to your hive. You'll need at least one feeder (free if you have a spare mason jar or gallon bucket, up to $30/each for top feeders). You might need some bags of sugar for fall feeding if this has been a bad year for the bees. For harvest, at a minimum you need jars for storage or sale (~$.50 each commercially), a few food grade buckets (probably free), and a bottling gate and filters ($20 will get you a fine set that will last for many years), plus basic kitchen implements you already have for crushing comb. If you want to extract, you can build a decent (if shoulder-wrenching) extractor for $30-50.
If you have a lot of solid scrap wood on hand, and basic carpentry skills and tools, plus the time to spend, you could get started in fine shape for under $500 total. If you buy everything in you might spend that much per hive.
>>2. How much honey can I expect to get from three hives and how often?
Depends on your surroundings. Is there a lot of farmland? Grazing? Trees? The "average" that gets bandied about a lot is 40 pounds per hive per year. Some years a single hive can produce 100+ lbs. of surplus honey. Some years you may have to feed sugar to every hive and get nothing back.
>>3. The bees will mostly be making honey from native pants and a variety of garden plants. Will this honey be >>any good?
Absolutely! I have never found a honey I didn't like. You're probably going to get mostly "wildflower" honey, unless you have very large concentrations of a single species nearby, so all the different nectars will be blended together.
>>4. Since I am not looking to do this as a hobby, but for honey production, is it worth my effort to get into it if I >>plan to just keep a few hives?
Depends on what the goal of the honey production is. Do you want to produce honey for your facility to stop buying sweeteners? Easy as pie with three hives. Do you want the bees to pay for their own upkeep while providing a task for the people you work with? Easy, and you can go as big or as small as you want. Do you want to bring in a small stream of side money to support other parts of the business? Doable, but you'll need more hives.
Commercial honey production?? If you have access to urban markets, you can sell your honey for $5-8 per pound direct to customers. Wholesale prices are more like $2. You saw the hives swarming every year - if you split the hive yourself or catch those swarms, you can probably double the number of hives every year. It's quite doable for a small honey operation to break even after the second year and pay for itself. But it's very hard to turn a major profit if beekeeping is not your primary occupation.
That's my thoughts after starting a small (non-honey production) bee business. Your mileage may vary.
Quote from: caticind on August 02, 2011, 07:26:28 PM
Like Jim's indicated, local beekeepers could be a big help to you.
My $0.02:
>>1. How much money (basic estimate) am I looking at to do this? I am talking the entire shebang here, from >>capturing to be keeping (3 hives) to collecting honey.
It depends on what materials and skills you can draw on. Since you are proficient at making do the old fashioned way, you can save a lot of money if you want.
You will need some basic tools (hive tool, smoker - ~$30) and at minimum a veil for each person who will work the bees (from practically free if you have the materials to make your own to $20 for a basic veil to $100-200 for a good jacket and veil combo). You'll need new hives (free except labor if you have scrap wood on hand and can build your own, ~$300 total if you can assemble from ordered parts, twice that if you buy them pre-built). You'll need stain or paint. You'll need frames (free as above, or $90 purchased). If you want foundation, that's more, but you don't absolutely have to have it. Ditto for a few feet of #8 hardware cloth. You'll need some rubber bands for moving comb from the tire or the most rotted of the old frames to your hive. You'll need at least one feeder (free if you have a spare mason jar or gallon bucket, up to $30/each for top feeders). You might need some bags of sugar for fall feeding if this has been a bad year for the bees. For harvest, at a minimum you need jars for storage or sale (~$.50 each commercially), a few food grade buckets (probably free), and a bottling gate and filters ($20 will get you a fine set that will last for many years), plus basic kitchen implements you already have for crushing comb. If you want to extract, you can build a decent (if shoulder-wrenching) extractor for $30-50.
If you have a lot of solid scrap wood on hand, and basic carpentry skills and tools, plus the time to spend, you could get started in fine shape for under $500 total. If you buy everything in you might spend that much per hive.
>>2. How much honey can I expect to get from three hives and how often?
Depends on your surroundings. Is there a lot of farmland? Grazing? Trees? The "average" that gets bandied about a lot is 40 pounds per hive per year. Some years a single hive can produce 100+ lbs. of surplus honey. Some years you may have to feed sugar to every hive and get nothing back.
>>3. The bees will mostly be making honey from native pants and a variety of garden plants. Will this honey be >>any good?
Absolutely! I have never found a honey I didn't like. You're probably going to get mostly "wildflower" honey, unless you have very large concentrations of a single species nearby, so all the different nectars will be blended together.
>>4. Since I am not looking to do this as a hobby, but for honey production, is it worth my effort to get into it if I >>plan to just keep a few hives?
Depends on what the goal of the honey production is. Do you want to produce honey for your facility to stop buying sweeteners? Easy as pie with three hives. Do you want the bees to pay for their own upkeep while providing a task for the people you work with? Easy, and you can go as big or as small as you want. Do you want to bring in a small stream of side money to support other parts of the business? Doable, but you'll need more hives.
Commercial honey production?? If you have access to urban markets, you can sell your honey for $5-8 per pound direct to customers. Wholesale prices are more like $2. You saw the hives swarming every year - if you split the hive yourself or catch those swarms, you can probably double the number of hives every year. It's quite doable for a small honey operation to break even after the second year and pay for itself. But it's very hard to turn a major profit if beekeeping is not your primary occupation.
That's my thoughts after starting a small (non-honey production) bee business. Your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the advice. Very informative.
Thanks for the links Jim. I have not seen any bee growers around here and those link will be very helpful in finding some.
Are you near :? Dadant of Texas :?
http://www.dadant.com/branch/paris.html (http://www.dadant.com/branch/paris.html)
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
>if you do use acronyms in your responses to my questions, please tell me what they mean.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesglossary.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesglossary.htm)
Terminology is here:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesterms.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesterms.htm)
>1. How much money (basic estimate) am I looking at to do this? I am talking the entire shebang here, from capturing to be keeping (3 hives) to collecting honey.
If you collect scrap lumber and have people build top bar hives and populate them with splits or swarms, it could be as little as the cost of protective equipment. If you buy good equipment and go with Langstroths it could go as high as infinity. Realistically buying equipment and buying protective equipment, probably a few hundred dollars would set up a couple of hives and the equipment for one person to manage them.
>2. How much honey can I expect to get from three hives and how often?
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesexpectations.htm (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesexpectations.htm)
>3. The bees will mostly be making honey from native pants and a variety of garden plants. Will this honey be any good?
Of course.
>4. Since I am not looking to do this as a hobby, but for honey production, is it worth my effort to get into it if I plan to just keep a few hives?
Yes.
Quote from: Jim 134 on August 02, 2011, 11:43:45 PM
Are you near :? Dadant of Texas :?
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
No. That is about 300 miles from me.
Quote from: Michael Bush on August 03, 2011, 01:00:35 AM
>if you do use acronyms in your responses to my questions, please tell me what they mean.
bushfarms.com/beesglossary.
Terminology is here:
bushfarms.com/beesterms.
>1. How much money (basic estimate) am I looking at to do this? I am talking the entire shebang here, from capturing to be keeping (3 hives) to collecting honey.
If you collect scrap lumber and have people build top bar hives and populate them with splits or swarms, it could be as little as the cost of protective equipment. If you buy good equipment and go with Langstroths it could go as high as infinity. Realistically buying equipment and buying protective equipment, probably a few hundred dollars would set up a couple of hives and the equipment for one person to manage them.
>2. How much honey can I expect to get from three hives and how often?
bushfarms.com/beesexpectations.
>3. The bees will mostly be making honey from native pants and a variety of garden plants. Will this honey be any good?
Of course.
>4. Since I am not looking to do this as a hobby, but for honey production, is it worth my effort to get into it if I plan to just keep a few hives?
Yes.
Thanks for those links. I read the one about expectations and the word "Draw" was used quite a bit in reference to bee and comb. I did not find it in the glossary link. What does it mean? Of course, I assume it means that the bees will fill the comb with honey. If I am correct about this it seems like a funny word because to word draw also has the connotation of meaning to extract something, like draw water from a well or money out of an account.
Draw - refers to the bees making their wax comb that they use to raise their brood and store their honey in. Example: "When we say bees are drawing comb", it means they are making new comb:
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/DSemple/Bees%202011/Kyle%20M/IMG_5420.jpg)
When comb has been completed and is older it is refered to as "Drawn Comb":
(http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj72/DSemple/Bees%202011/Dale%20S/IMG_5613.jpg)
Quote from: D Semple on August 04, 2011, 05:54:37 PM
Draw - refers to the bees making their wax comb that they use to raise their brood and store their honey in. Example: "When we say bees are drawing comb", it means they are making new comb:
Ah! I see. The word "draw" is used here in the artistic design connotation of the word. Okay, I get it now. My confusion was because the article was referring to using synthetic comb and the bees not wanted to draw on it. I figured that if the comb was already there, the only thing left to do was for them to fill it with honey and seal it, so I assumed the word draw (in this instance) meant, "to fill". Honestly, I never knew that synthetic comb existed before I read that article. I just thought the bees would build the comb around the frames with wires (not sure what they are called). I heard that a long time ago they use to just squeeze the honey from the comb, ball the comb up and put it back in the hive so the bees could use it to rebuild, but in modern times they use an centrifugal force extractor to get the honey out without damaging the comb so the the bee could just refill it. Now with synthetic comb I guess all that information is a mute point. Boy I have a lot to learn!
By the way, is there some sort of exploded diagram of a hive that shows what each part of the hive is called? I really am trying to learn and understand, but without a box in front of me so I can see all the part, it is hard for me to visualize what people are talking about.
if your going to get into this you need to hit the books. the backyard beekeeper by kim flottum is a really good book to get first. it describes beekeeping right from start to finish. hit the books hard learn as much as u can first then get some bees it will go a lot smoother. HAPPY BEEKEEPING :bee:
A better book would be "The Practical Beekeeper" by Michael Bush. I just bought it from Amazon.com
I already ordered the book, "First Lessons in Beekeeping" by C. P. Dadant. It was recommended to me. I have not received it yet but it should get here in day or two.
Quote from: jungleexplorer on August 05, 2011, 12:13:32 AM
I already ordered the book, "First Lessons in Beekeeping" by C. P. Dadant. It was recommended to me. I have not received it yet but it should get here in day or two.
You will get a world of information from the book that you ordered. Of the two books suggested both have very good information information in them. The author of The Practical Beekeeper is online often and has a great website, also. The book has his website (plus extra) in it and the photos are black and white. *Very* good information. The Backyard Beekeeper has great information in it. also. It's photos are in color which might be good if you are a visual learner. Neither book would be a "wrong" decision. The book you ordered is a very good one, too. It will definitely get you started and is a very easy read that is written in what seems to me a very logical progression of information.
Best wishes,
Ed
And stick around HERE for the best of all beekeeping info.
Im a first year keeper and this site ended up being my main 'go to'. Youll get a variety of answers and be able to choose the one that suits your situation.
D Semple: I love the pics! Thanks.
Although I own several different bee books, I also went the the library and ended up eventually checking out every book they had on beekeeping and reading each at least once, some a couple of times, like "The Backyard Beekeeper."
If you get addicted like most of us on this site, you will want to read everything you can get your hands. But i will echo what others have already said, Michael Bush's new offering, "The Practical Beekeeper" probably will be my "go to" reference. Like him, I use all 8 frame medium equipment. And fortunately Michael posts on here a lot so you get a chance to hear directly from him from time to time, and he always has sage advice.