.
Modern means that treatment is in European recommendations in last 5 years.
One of the research leader ir prof Nanetti in Italy.
Same methods are used in Switcherlad, Germany, Denmark and Sweden.
Affects on human heath are carefully tested.
UK is not on the mad of modern treatmet. Ireland copied old early results in its recommendations. In many countries thre is a real mesh in this issue.
All results are published in English. There is no language barrier in this issue and Finnish climate means nothing in these recommendations.
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There are 3 main stuffs which are now recommended:
1)oxalix acid spraying, trickling and hot gasifying
2) thymol oil evaporation
3) formic acid evaporation
the goal is to destroy over 95% of mites before next spring brooding time.
Thymol and formic are used when honey ga taken away and the hive is reduced to the size of wintering.
Thymol and formic acid do not affect on the mites under brood cappings. Therefore treatment lasts 3 weeks. It needs ver 15 C day temperature.
Oxalic acid trickling is used in winter near freezing point when there is no bood any more.
In my country mite treatment is easy because in every hive has a long brood brake.
Long brooding time needs 2 treatment:
- first you treat them before autumn that mites cannot violate the last brood which are going to be winter bees.
- triklings meaning is to knock down the last mites so that thir number does not rise to risk level during the summer.
Couple of mites are not dangerous but 5 is too much after winter. Mites double itself every month and when the number is in colony 1000, it is risk level. Next month figure is 2000 and next 4000.
Here popular way to handle mites is to put thymol slices during winter food feeding.
The hive is hot when bees are busy with syrup.
One slice to one box and two slice to 2-box hive.
Oxalic acid trickling in November is very essential and the most easy to do.
64% formalic acid is like thymol. It is a little bit dangerous to hands.
Finski, why do you choose to trickle as opposed to spray or vaporize?
It seems like spray or vapor would cover more mites?
trickling in winter has always just scared the hell out of me. I know its done but I just cant get by the thought of wetting them down with snow on the ground. I have great success with oxalic vapor 3 times, at 7 day intervals in Sept and again in spring
Anyone know of good links of how to do the gasification.
Mix rates and all of the different chemicals.
Always pour acids into water. If you pour water into acid, the heat of reaction will cause the water to explode into steam, sometimes violently.
And that needs to be posted more. Because you can buy acid on amazon.
"gasification" of what chemicals If oxalic is what your talking about this is a good site http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/oxalic.html (http://www.members.shaw.ca/orioleln/oxalic.html)
oxalic is a dry powder and to vaporize it is used straight. to trickle it is mixed into sugar syrup.
I've got one of those vaporizers and I use it every Fall (usually once a week for three weeks in November here). I've wanted to use it all during the year, but how do I use this without completely angering the hives considering it doesn't get below 70 here even at night? Even when I use it in November and it's below 50 during the day they get cranky and a few end up getting vaporized with the OA.
Quote from: danno on August 04, 2011, 09:06:57 AM
trickling in winter has always just scared the hell out of me. I know its done bes 2ut I just cant get by the thought of wetting them down with snow on the ground. I have great success with oxalic vapor 3 times, at 7 day intervals in Sept and again in spring
you are hell wrong.
Trickling is made only once. It takes 25 seconds per hive.
Question is about how to handle varroa. NOT How to handle your feelings. I am not psyciatric.
Trickling is the best and easiest method, if you have brood brake in winter.
IF YOU HAVE A GOOD PRACTICE IN USE, CONTINUE IT. No need to learn more tricks.
calm down finski
You have some great ideas but your people skills just suck. I have always knocked the mites down early so I get a few brood cycles and healthy mite free young bee's going into that broodless winter. Maybe this year I leave a yard and trickle in Nov just to see how it goes. I have one in mind that has 16 colonies. Oxalic sublimination really works very well but requires a 2 minute burn and then 10 minutes sealed, 3 time each 7 days apart. I have a good system using dollar store timers. I preset 5 at 10 minutes and place them on 5 colonies. I have one set at 2 minutes and place it on my truck battery. I seal a hive with a full burner inside, hook the batery up and start the 2 minute timer. When it beeps I unhook the battery, pull the burner and reseal then start the 10 minute timer on that hive. Cool the burner refill and start hive #2. I am usually up to hive number 5 when the 1st 10 minute timers beeps. Its a fast, cheap and effective system but I still hate the 3 trips
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Trickling oxalic is almost free. With 100 g stuff you handle 70 hives.
It is the most handy.
Once I handled too yearly hives and it caused later big troubles and next winter big losses because mite population was too big in spring start.
Just now I have some hives without brood. Today I noticed one more
I put a larva frame and catch lots of mites it it and then take it away.
Small mating nucs are easy to spray with oxalic water solution.
Piece of thymol slice is easy too.
I just hear the arguments! Where Finski can I read a detailed description of your trickling! If I was a computer brain I would know! I keep bees where I should depending on the year have November days with a high enough temperature to accomplish it. We are back in a cold cycle here so Maybe October this year. Thankyou Sir.
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Trickling was invented by Italian beekeeping professor Nanetti. The method has bee developed further in European Union Varroa group.
The stuff
get a digital balance 1 g accuracy
7,5 g oxalic acid
100 g warm water
100 g sugar
You get 0,16 litre syrup and it is for 3-5 hives.
Give 35 ml OA syrup to one box hive and 50 ml to 2 box hive.
Drible into each bees filled frame gap syrup with syringe.
Don't separate hive bodies if you have two box.
Good hanling weather temp is +5 - -3 C
TO DO IT:
Don't panic. Nothing bad happens.
Oxalsyrebehandling II (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT4hbGhPJes#)
Träufelbehandlung mit Oxalsäure (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzjrQQHh7fI#ws)
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An example http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0035LTCSM/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=2617941011&s=arts-crafts (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0035LTCSM/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=2617941011&s=arts-crafts)
Allows you to choose from 4 different modes: Gram, Ounce, Grain, Carat
Capacity & Accurcary: 600 x 0.1 g, 21.2 x 0.01 oz, 9200 x 1 gn, 3000 x 0.05 ct
Weigh items on Stainless Steel weighing platform, or in expansion tray .
If you meet digital balances in stores, test their accuracy. They are not allways good.
To verifye a balance you may use coins. US coin's weight:
The following table gives specifications for The United States Mint legal tender coins presently in circulation. http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/?action=coin_specifications (http://www.usmint.gov/about_the_mint/?action=coin_specifications)
Weights
Cent 2.5 g
Nickel 5.0 g
Dime 2.3 g
quarter Dollar 5.7 g
Half dollar 11.3 g
So: cent + nickel = 7,5 g
Thankyou sir. What percentage strength or concentration is the Oxalic acid you are formulating with? I want to get this right.
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The strenght percet is 3,65 = 7,5 g / 208g
In Swiss beekeeping they use 2,8 % and in Italy often 4,1%.
Some guys get mad when they calculate percentage. These numbers tell that there are tolerancy in syrup making and every normal person can do it.
NOTE:
Mites will die during next 4 weeks if you follow how it succeeded.
December is a good trickling month because brood are away. In January bees start rear brood again even if out temps are -20C.
Here is excellent information on oxalic acid from Randy Oliver.
http://scientificbeekeeping.com/varroa-management/treatments-for-varroa/ (http://scientificbeekeeping.com/varroa-management/treatments-for-varroa/)
I have not had the guts to try it either but after reading the available information many times I am confident it works. The Problem I think is that you have to make sure you have healthy bees before you use the trickle when the colony goes broodless. This is why you need to use thymol or something first to knock varroa levels down low enough first so the colony can raise healthy winter bees. If you have this accomplished then you can use the knock out punch on the mites with oxalic acid. I think Randy states that colonies treated with the oxalic drip or trickle winter at 85% strength of a colony that was not. They however catch up quickly in spring and will soon be un-noticed. It is also stated that the oxalic drip can also be applied to a broodless nuc or package with great results in the summer. If you make splits with swarm cells during the summer, when the colony goes broodless or almost broodless before the new queen starts laying you can nearly wipe the mites out. Apparently the acid has little or no noticeable affect on the queen. If you read the information on Randy's site the mode of action that kills the mite is not clear but it is guessed that it is the bee ingesting the acid that kills the mites that feed on the bees. The queen will not eat the sugar solution so they are not affected. I was hoping to use hop guard to keep mites in check late summer ( but my state did not apply for it) and to allow the bees to rear good winter bees than knock out or control varroa with the OA. Formic is very hard on the bees and cause queen loss. If formic can kill queens, it surely at least damages the ones who survive. I think from the available information out there, if a beekeeper can use a treatment like hop guard to keep mites low enough for the colony to stay healthy and treat with supers on, then be able to nearly wipe the mite out come winter, you have a great strategy for varroa control. If you dont need to introduce chemicals in the spring and early summer months when raising queen and drone are developing, you are all around keeping healthier colonies, better queens, better mated queens, longer living queens, etc. I have been hearing great things about thymol too so I am very seriously thing of using the thymol, then OA. I think Finski has a good grasp on this method. Like Finski say, Fear may be the only problem if it works. Remember however, OA is not approved in the United States.
Quote from: bee-nuts on August 07, 2011, 01:17:41 AM
. I have been hearing great things about thymol too so I am very seriously thing of using the thymol, then OA. I think Finski has a good grasp on this method. Like Finski say, Fear may be the only problem if it works. Remember however, OA is not approved in the United States.
Thymol is as effective as oxalic acid, but their habit to use is very different.
Thymol is used to knock down mites before they violate wintering bees.
If you have much mites, absolutely use late summer thymol.
If mites have done they dirty job, oxalic does not help any more. Oxalic hits down mites so that they have not time to multiplye themselves too much before next autumn.
No offence to those who pursue these methods but none of that stuff is ever going into my hives.
We grow lots of hops and several varieties of thyme, both adored by my bees (along w/ hundreds of other plants) and which lately offer profit potential for entrepreneurs.
My feeling is that like humans, bees need a varied diet with some medicinals thrown in for good measure in order to thrive, but 'they' must bring it in when they want/need it.
Don't know if its the diet we provide or the ample variety of wild plants our region provides, but my bees suffer little to no effects from varroa, but in any case I'm done experimenting on my bees with any inside treatments other than feeding when needed, but that's just me.
thomas
Quote from: T Beek on August 07, 2011, 02:40:17 PM
No offence to those who pursue these methods but none of that stuff is ever going into my hives.
We grow lots of hops and several varieties of thyme, both adored by my bees (along w/ hundreds of other plants) and which lately offer profit potential for entrepreneurs.
My feeling is that like humans, bees need a varied diet with some medicinals thrown in for good measure in order to thrive, but 'they' must bring it in when they want/need it.
Don't know if its the diet we provide or the ample variety of wild plants our region provides, but my bees suffer little to no effects from varroa, but in any case I'm done experimenting on my bees with any inside treatments other than feeding when needed, but that's just me.
thomas
yes, right!. Jesus said: only sick ones need healing
Looking forward to reading more research on the subject, but this will never be a useful treatment for me. My hives are NEVER broodless during the winter. Rather their brood break is during the hottest part of the summer. In this area it is so warm that there is some brood all winter.
Luckily there are other methods of mite control that work.
I check if the hives have more than 10 mites on the greased board per day (5 day count).
I just did a formic treatment, 40 ml per hive with 2 deep brood box, 65% formic acid.
The treatment was performed at night because of cooler temperatures (less than 27 degrees celsius).
Honey supers were separated by a plastic sheet; in the morning the plastic sheet was removed.
Soon enough I'm going to have them tested for nosemosis. This autumn, when I will feed, I will add apple cider vinegar since it apparently it prevents nosemosis (perhaps by lowering the pH of the syrup ?).
Quote from: caticind on August 08, 2011, 10:54:09 AM
Luckily there are other methods of mite control that work.
formic acid and thymol are used during brooding period