This is my first year. I've found several swarm cells during my inspections. Usually they do not have an egg in them. Recently, though my hive was looking pretty close to being honey-bound. I found recent eggs in the swarm cells. I removed most of these, but later felt like that may have been a bad move. If I remove swarm cells and let's say I missed seeing that my hive swarmed, then I may make my hive queenless. I added another super and hopefully my bees are able to move the nectar in the two brood boxes (where normally they'd be laying eggs) in to that super as they draw out the comb. My question is whether it is better to leave swarm cells be, or remove them always.
My general thought is that if your bees are going to swarm, removing a swarm cell isn't going to keep them from doing it. Right?
it might be late for them to requeen themselves. if the drones are gone, as they are here, the virgin queen will not mate.
one thing you might do is take the old queen, some frames bees and food, and move them to another box. this will simulate swarming for the hive and will save your queen. leave the swarm cells behind. if the old hive can't get a mated queen going, you can recombine them in a few weeks.
To your last question, correct. She may (and will probably)leave either way. What I normally do in your situation is find the queen and remove her and 3 frames of brood, pollen and honey to a 5 frame nuc (look up "Easy 5-frame nuc plans" if you don't have a nuc handy). I then shake a frame to two worth of bees in there as well. Set that nuc in a different location with the entrance facing a different direction from the donor hive and cover up the entrance with tree branches. They'll get through it, reorient and the bulk of them will call the nuc home from then on. Make note of where the swarm cells are (flat thumb tacks on the top of the frame) and leave them alone in the donor hive, replace the frames and close them up. Depending on the age of the queen cells you could have a new laying queen within 1-4 weeks.
Considering you're new (nothing wrong with that!) it's a little risky and you'll need to keep on top of the donor hive to make sure you get a laying queen and have a plan of action if something happens to the new queen. I do this now and again and it's a great way to get a nuc for overwintering and prepair for the next year.
The only reason I know of to destroy queen cells is if you don't like the genetics of the hive and want to requeen with a better queen or queen cell. Removing the cells does not stop a swarm and may end up leaving you queenless. Of course, you can remove some of the queen cells to use them in other hives, but don't take all of them.
Quote from: kathyp on August 04, 2011, 03:30:44 PM
one thing you might do is take the old queen, some frames bees and food, and move them to another box.
this will simulate swarming for the hive and will save your queen.
leave the swarm cells behind. if the old hive can't get a mated queen going, you can recombine them in a few weeks.
the hive is honeybound? What does it mean?
Where they are going to do winterbee brood?
You cannot take back the old queen because bees will renew during winter if they cannot do it now.
- bye a queen
- extract honey that the queen has space to lay winter bees.
- leave pollen frames under the brood frames.
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I do not know when the hives make winter bees in Cleveland and when they normally stop brooding. In Semptember or in Ochtober?
It is easy to give a new queen when the hive has capped its own queen cells. Better idea is to make first a nuc and put the byed queen there.
What is your hive size now? How many boxes and how many frames brood?
You should get at least one box full of brood that you get a normal winter cluster.
DO YOU KNOW YOUR MITE SITUATION?
Does the hive need treament before making winter brood?
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As a general rule I never cut out/destroy queen cells. It doesn't stop swarming and the bees know better what they need than you do.
Sometimes swarming can be a good thing. Can lower/stop brood production for a while which helps with varroa. You get a new, younger queen. If they swarm during a dearth, less mouths to feed/use up stores during the dearth. You'll still have time in later summer/early fall to feed and build up pop of new young bees to get you through the winter with your new queen. And we need managed bees duplicating themselves in the wild as the wild stock has dwindled.
Quote from: ldaxon on August 05, 2011, 11:25:37 AM
And we need managed bees duplicating themselves in the wild as the wild stock has dwindled.
I'm not so sure about this. You are right that the wild bees declined when varroa came in. But any that survive now have adapted to varroa and are a source of valuable genetic diversity. Competition from "managed bees" only decreases the chances of feral bees to maintain their genetic diversity. I'd rather see the flow of genes from the wild bees into the "managed bee" population rather than in the other direction.
Quoterather see the flow of genes from the wild bees into the "managed bee" population rather than in the other direction.
yup
I agree we need survivor stock in the wild and their desirable genetics. But I don't think wild bees are declining because of too much competition from managed stock (though I can't point to a study to support my position. Do you have any?) Managed bees can have good genetics too, i.e. queens breed for varroa resistance, etc.
My point is, if the wild bee stock is declining (and we can't prove it is from competition from cultivated stock) then the more cultivated stock swarms and then becomes survivor/wild stock, the better.
i don't think that a drop off in the wild population could be attributed to swarms from managed hives. my only point was to agree that if we were going to encourage the movement of survivor genetics one direction or another, better to get the survivor genes into the managed hives than the managed into the wild.
in my area we have lots of berry farms and the bees are brought in. there are a tremendous number of swarms from those hives. i get more calls during berry season than i can keep up with. yet we do not have an abundance of wild hives and many that i pick up do not make it unless i choose to intervene.
on the other hand, those hives i have dug out of walls or picked up swarms out of trees go on for years. those berry hives that i requeen from the survivor hives and baby a bit for the first year often do very well. they become survivor hives.
now....swarms from these hives might do very well in the wild. guess it's chickens and eggs. i think we need the genetics increased first.
Quote from: ldaxon on August 05, 2011, 11:52:48 AM
Managed bees can have good genetics too, i.e. queens breed for varroa resistance, etc.
If those are local, chemical free, natural comb bees to start with, I would agree with you. But most of those improved queens are bred from stock that is not local to you or me. They may be good on varroa resistance, but that is only one trait. I want local bees that are adapted to local conditions and may have traits that nobody is even aware of..... egg slowdown in a dearth for example. I bet most of those VSH queens are bred from stock that has been treated with pesticides, fungicides, etc. So there has been no selective pressure on them to survive in a complete hive ecosystem without chemicals.
The VSH trait is dominant, so once it has been introduced to an area in any significant numbers, it should eventually reach the feral population. Repeated ongoing swarms of imported bees does not improve on that situation. But those sucessive swarms do force the spread of recessive traits that might otherwise disappear quickly in a large feral population.
How many wild hives are there? I have 10 colonies in my beeyard right now. I doubt that there are 10 wild hives in a 2 mile radius. It's the wild hive genetics that are threatened by imported swarms.
I never remove swarm cells. I practice keeping the broodnest open as a prevention but sometimes my colonies still swarm. I agree; They know best.
Don't know about the rest of the Country but there has been a steady increase in 'mostly' black Ferrel honeybees (including some swarms) around here over the last several years, whether that's from an increase in hobbyists or the commercial cranberry growers dumping more bees through swarming is an unknown. I'm just glad to see them.
thomas
I am thinking a swarm this time of year would be a nice blessing. There is plenty of time for a new queen to get established before winter, and a little break in the brood cycle would help the hive get ahead of the mites.
only if you have drones or can order a queen. if you are going to order a queen, you are still going to destroy those cells.
>My general thought is that if your bees are going to swarm, removing a swarm cell isn't going to keep them from doing it. Right?
Exactly. Odds are if they are capped they ALREADY swarmed and if you destroy them you'll leave them queenless.