Hi everyone,
Totally stressed out right now with one of my hives. This is my first year with beekeeping (in Gainesville, FL, i.e. North/Central FL area) and I thought I was doing good, until now. Last weekend, we extracted one of our supers from our hive. Super exciting and we got 30-some lbs. of honey. We have another super still to go on this hive, but it's not capped yet, so it waits for later :) The hive at this time was doing fantastic, lots of bees! So, this weekend we go in to do a little dusting and insert some beetle traps. Not to mention that I was getting a little concerned, since I hadn't seem much bee activity this week from this hive. Not much bearding which is not usually the case... I was starting to think something was fishy and this was certainly confirmed when I opened up the hive to not find many bees at all, especially in the super. It was close to dark, so I didn't get the best picture yet of what is going on. I saw a good amount of capped brood, but not many larve and didn't inspect closely for eggs (i.e. it was getting too close to dark and I couldn't see well). Obviously I know what's on my to-do list tomorrow :)
So, a couple questions...
-First, I was told it was "unusual" for bees to swarm at this time of year. Well, looks like mine have swarmed... Has anyone else had this happen? Is it possible for them to swarm without us knowing, I saw no real changes in bee behavior and I am really good about looking at my hive (from the outside) on a daily basis. Just trying to figure out what I need to improve for next year.
-Also, am I going to be able to get this hive through winter given this setback?
-I am worried about the lack of bees in my hive now, would it be advisable to equalize my hives as far as adults go (I do have brood). I have another really strong hive that I could do this with. My concerns is that there is not enough adults... I'll find out more tomorrow on the queen situation.
Any helpful advice would be much appreciated, I am so devistated by this (I will of course get over it ;), especially since it was pretty unexpected :(
Allison
Quote from: allisono on August 21, 2011, 10:50:46 PM
would it be advisable to equalize my hives as far as adults go (I do have brood). I have another really strong hive that I could do this with. My concerns is that there is not enough adults...
Allison
First, check to see if you have eggs coming along. And if you have any queen cells. If you have a strong hive and want to equalize, just make sure that you have a queen, eggs, or queen cells in both hives.
For a quick boost you could shake some bees into the weak hive and move some "burnt biscuit" brood also. The burnt biscuit is the dark brown capped brood that is close to emerging.
I will venture a guess that your hive was in fact honey bound and that is why they swarmed on you. If the queen has no room to lay they will gear up to swarm. No matter how many boxes you have on any given hive what matters most is what is directly above and below the brood nest.
Bees swarm for reproduction and when they are congested. Absconds take place when something internal has gone awry such as parasites or vermin.
...JP
I live a little southeast of you and last year I had more of my hives swarm at this time of the year than I did in the spring. I admit that my hives were still new in the spring time and were probably too weak to swarm at that time.
My hives are now pretty strong getting ready for the pepper and I do expect some of them to swarm at any time.
Larry
Thanks everyone for the advice :)
JP, I do have a decent amount of honey in that hive. 1 super that is mostly uncapped STILL... But, there is some room on the frames for the queen to lay. In this sort of situation again, should I add an extra super right above the hive body or what should I do? My other hive is loaded with bees too, lots of bearding in the evening, etc. It's top super is still a was from being full. Should I add another super to give them some more room or something right now? I am hearing from Dadant that I should expect a decent flow here soon with spanish needle and other things... Would love to prevent another swarm in hive #2.
I think I will do as Frameshift suggested and move over some brood or adult bees. I haven't heard about shaking adult bees in a different hive before? Does this work well or would actual brood be better?
Best all,
Allison
Allison, check your first two boxes to make sure she has room to lay and the third. If she has available cells to lay great, if you find the first two boxes are over laden with honey pull a few. Give her room in the center frames to lay in, keep honey frames on the outside. If you stay ahead of the game and she always has room to lay they won't get honey bound.
...JP
allisono
The commercial guys @ Tampa Bay bee keepers meeting this month said the next swarm (season) will be soon because of all the rain helping the plants thrive also cabbage palm has done a lot better than other years along with the other things that fed the bees.
This past Friday I got 3 swarms on St.Pete Beach the largest was right in the parking lot of the Beach :-D
I also got a cut out the same day under a Shed and it was Full of brood and honey(was a Bumper day for me)
You might want to put your general location this way,others near you can possibly give you a better view of what and why
Tommyt
Hi everyone...
Finally getting back to write an update. So, here's the status now. I checked on Wednesday and could not find a queen, however I had a bunch of queen cups (~10) that had some good size larva in them; there are various ages though based on sizes. I then opened the hive up again on Saturday and saw that the queen cups have been sealed up... I also took a frame of honey out of this hive (they have plenty of honey, a little low on pollen I think though) and gave them a frame of capped brood and pollen from my stronger hive, since they are low on brood. I have been doing a little reading and I am wondering what is the best thing to do with the queen cups, seems like a lot of differing opinions, i.e. the usual in the bee world ;) Should I leave all the queen cups (seems more natural to me to let the bees do their things)? Or do I kill some of the queen cups and just leave a few, saw this when doing some research on-line (would I potentially weed out a better queen, seems anti-natural selection)?
The bees are also not doing much of anything up in their super of honey which is pretty full (just waiting to be capped). Should I be concerned about this? Though lots of activity down in the hive body...
I also reduced the entrance to the hive to help the guard bees out a bit... I've noticed more small hive beetles in this hive and some fire ants (not a lot, but a few that weren't there when the hive was strong).
Any advice would be very much appreciated :)
Hope everyone had a nice weekend :)
Allison
>however I had a bunch of queen cups (~10) that had some good size larva in them; there are various ages though based on sizes. I then opened the hive up again on Saturday and saw that the queen cups have been sealed up... I also took a frame of honey out of this hive (they have plenty of honey, a little low on pollen I think though) and gave them a frame of capped brood and pollen from my stronger hive, since they are low on brood. I have been doing a little reading and I am wondering what is the best thing to do with the queen cups, seems like a lot of differing opinions, i.e. the usual in the bee world Wink Should I leave all the queen cups (seems more natural to me to let the bees do their things)? Or do I kill some of the queen cups and just leave a few, saw this when doing some research on-line (would I potentially weed out a better queen, seems anti-natural selection)?
I would leave them all. But I'd also pay attention to the rest of the hive. Are the eggs and larvae in worker cells? Are they single eggs? Are they in the bottom of the cell? The point is that if you have single eggs in the bottoms of cells you probably have a laying queen but if there are a lot of multiple eggs you probably have laying workers. If you have evidence of a queen, then I'd be trying to figure out the cause of the queen cells. Are they on the bottom (typical for swarming) or in the middle (typical for supersedure)? Is the hive crowded? Sparsely populated? Crowded would lean me towards swarming. Sparse would lead me toward supersedure. Keep in mind the amount of time to get a new queen. If the cell was just capped it will emerge in another 8 days and the queen should be laying two to three weeks after that, so from when it was capped that's three to four weeks. Assuming no brood, if in doubt it's hard to go wrong giving them a frame of brood and eggs now and then to stave off laying workers and give them resources to resolve any issues.
I hived a swarm little more than a week ago....in North Wisconsin. I would think it's common in Florida, no?
So far, after adding some brood and feeding like crazy they are doing well, queen active, workers buzy. The next two weeks will determine whether they go it alone into winter or are combined w/ another colony.
thomas
Allison,
Swarming is closely related to flows. Studies years ago established a secondary swarm season (mainly September) in areas with strong fall flows. In some years, up to 20% of the annual swarms are in the fall.
Areas of the Northeast, as well as areas such as Florida with Brazilian peppers and other fall crops can have a fall swarm cycle.
You did nothing wrong.
Just be aware that there is about a 25% fail rate of swarming hives. For every 4 hives that swarm, you have one that without beekeeper intervention, they will die. This is caused by queens being harmed in fights, killed during mating flights, landing on the wrong landing board and being killed, and just plain old bad genetics that keep queens from laying, etc.
Swarming is part of beekeeping. Just pay attention. And go with the flow! ;)
Gotta agree with that. This year we had the strongest goldenrod flow in recent memory, and it came on at least 10 days to 2 weeks earlier. Its nearly done now, we had 30 this AM w/ more to come tonight, mid-twentys predicted.
The friend I received the tip (swarm) from over a week ago has since caught another himself and seems to be infected with much desire to keep bees, after seeing how easy it is to capture them (I tried telling him it wasn't 'always' like that and there's more to it than putting them in a box 'right before winter begins......').
He'll likely be joining the forum any time now 8-)
thomas
Had a surprise swarm yesterday about the size of a basketball. Gave it a frame of brood to anchor it and some syrup. I will probably try to combine it back with the suspect hive. Thought I was keeping ahead of them by giving them room but the flow has been surprisingly good and sustained for the last few weeks.
As a personal note to Alison, stop stressing. Use these experiences as learning experiences. You are dealing with nature and these bees have survived doing what they do long before man came along. They will continue to survive in spite of you. Don't take anything personal.