The subject line was the quote from my neighbor when we were about finished with the relocation of two particularly aggressive colonies. No, they weren't particularly aggressive, they were actually out for blood. At least it seemed so to me.
My neighbors and I have a bee yard next to their house and we captured a few swarms and put them into stacked 5 frame nucleus hives. We stacked them 3-high, put them side by side and faced them in opposite directions. When the time came, we laid a 10 frame plastic queen excluder across both columns and began stacking 10 frame honey excluders...basically a cheap two-queen system. The nucleus boxes were the D Coates design published elsewhere on this forum.
We noticed after a few weeks the docile swarms became a bit touchy. As the summer went on, we noticed them getting more and more aggressive. We did pull a couple of full honey supers and did pretty well honey-wise during a not so great year for nectar flow. The entire month of August now, my neighbors have not been able to even sit on their deck for fear of the bees. Last week I saw my neighbor mowing his lawn in his bee suit. I felt pretty bad about it, but soon after we made the decision to move these bees to one of my out yards on a ranch about 25 miles away.
It seems that every year I do something with my bee colonies where I get pretty intimidated and feel like I'm over my head. This season, it happened last Sunday when we got started moving the bees. We had a plan, but like Mike Tyson said, "Everybody has a plan, till they get punched in the face." The good news is that nobody got stung, at least very badly. These critters stung me through my bee suit and through my Levis...pretty amazing. Anyway, our plan went into the dumper pretty quick as the bees came after us with a vengeance, but once you get started doing something like this, you really cannot stop. So we pushed through and got the bees into my pickup. Before we got everything broken down and put into the pickup, my neighbor got a bee under his bonnet. The only thing I could figure is that there was a very small little gap where the zippers for the veil met and somehow the little critter squeezed in. Miraculously, he didn't get stung and we were able to isolate her and commit apicide before she was able to inflict damage. A little duct tape over the gap and we went back to it. These bees were relentless. My neighbor walked down the road about a quarter mile away from the bee yard while I was getting my pickup on the road and these crazy things were still all over him. So he just climbed into my pickup anyway and we went down the road still in full battle dress.
Things are still pretty hot at my neighbor's house as I assume that there are some stragglers still left behind. They still are coming after us a full three days after the main batch of the colonies got moved. I got stung on Monday and Tuesday. I figured that the max they could last is three days unless they join with one or more of the other hives. If they did join other hives, I assume that they'll last a couple weeks.
These bees are darker in color, basically a black abdomen with yellow pin stripes and a little smaller than the other Italians we have around here. They were picked up out of the city in several swarms. In fact, I posted a video of two of the swarm shakes I did. They emanated out of a bee tree and they seemed like a nice feral colony / survivor stock. I was excited to add them to my collection. My neighbor did some research and firmly believes that they are of German Black Bee descent. The hybridized version we have today are known to be quite aggressive, some have stated that they are every bit as aggressive as the AHBs.
I'll post some pictures later, but is it possible that I have those nasty hybridized German Blacks? And how long should I expect the stragglers to keep coming after us?
Thanks!
QuoteLast week I saw my neighbor mowing his lawn in his bee suit.
Now THIS is how we know you're a beek!!
John, I don't know anything about German Black bees, but this was a very interesting report. Thanks for sharing.
BB, it was pretty funny seeing him driving his little John Deere around wearing the bee suit, but I also felt pretty bad about it.
We are supposed to keep Honeybees, not Yellow Jackets! :lol:
Requeen them and see if that helps.
Is this bee yard yours?
Any migratory hives nearby? They could be second generation buckfast, or they could be hybrid with almost any other type of bee, including AHB.
Quote from: scrapiron on August 25, 2011, 09:41:18 AM
Requeen them and see if that helps.
I want to avoid that if possible as they are quite the honey producers. I took an intermediate step and separated them into two separate hives, i.e. took them out of the two-queen environment and put them into separate 10 frame deeps. I'm hoping that makes a significant change in their attitude. If not, then yes, re-queening is the next step.
Quote from: Scadsobees on August 25, 2011, 10:18:04 AM
Is this bee yard yours?
Any migratory hives nearby? They could be second generation buckfast, or they could be hybrid with almost any other type of bee, including AHB.
Where they are now is a ranch owned by a friend who wants as many bees on her property as possible, she also has fruit trees and a sizable garden. I did warn her ahead of time and due to her fondness for the honeybees and openness to give them a try we avoided the destruction of these colonies.
I doubt that there are migratory hives anywhere close. Not many crops other than wheat close by so nothing really to pollinate.
AHB? In Colorado above the 39th parallel?
Quote from: The Bix on August 25, 2011, 11:12:08 AM
AHB? In Colorado above the 39th parallel?
No...from hives of a migratory beek nearby. That is why I was wondering about other hives in the area. I wasn't quite sure what your situation was, so I thought I'd ask. Possible, if unlikely....
If the flow is over, put a feeder on them for a week and report back. It is likely a dearth causing restlessness. Either that, or they are in the process of requeening themselves.
Thanks iddee, was hoping you would weigh in. I pulled every frame in each of the colonies during the relocation, found one empty queen cell in each hive. I did see both queens though. So I don't think they're re-queening, I think the dearth is the more likely scenario.
Another option, if you would like to see what the queen can do and not kill her, is to move her into a three or five frame split. This will keep her going, but reduce the hive numbers to a "manageable" number. With less bees in her hive, the number of guard bees will be less, and they should be less aggressive. Take the rest of the hive and add a new queen, essentially requeening 70% of the colony.
You could have German Black Bees, more likely a Buckfast hybrid (those can be nasty). Russell sells the AMM, which is sometimes called the German Black Bee, and they are very resilient. According to Russell, most of the "survivor" or native bees that are around today are AMM. They can also be very aggressive. I've been told they "aren't for the faint of heart" and should be "avoided by beginners, or anyone else that isn't prepared to take a number of stings."
Here's a picture of the bees inside the bee tree from whence these evil critters emanated. The bees from our hives look the same.
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7825/photo41j.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/photo41j.jpg/)
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QuoteHere's a picture of the bees inside the bee tree from whence these evil critters emanated. The bees from our hives look the same.
i have a hive full of those exact same critters and i'd really like to know what they are exactly most likely some form of mutt, but mine are as nice as can bee. :-D
I feel for you really do. I have a wild hive that is mean too. Its hard for me to judge how mean but I can tell you they are nothing like Italians, VSH or Russians.
Mine were 15 frames strong and so hot with a suit on I didn't want to go threw the frames.
So I requeened 5 frames and moved the original hive and queen to a new location.
The guard bees all stayed with the original hive location and new queen and is still hot but they will die off. the original hive in the new location is timid but its guard force is no longer there I will just always leave that queen weak and use them for build up.
My grandfather ran black germans and we had a few wild hives left of them in the yard when I was a kid. They are the reason my father never became a beekeeper. They would attack the neighbors when granddad would rob them real nasty from the stories.