Is it to late to feed for more brood going in to winter?
Thank you.
I'm in central PA.
If you're not in a fall flow you might want to be feeding 1:1 sugar syrup right now. Yes the queen is laying and she'll continue til some time in December or so. Once the days get cool or the nights get chilly up your way feed them 2:1 sugar syrup. The more bees they have going into winter the better.
I consider the fall brood period from August 15 to October 15. Bees may brood longer, but many times do not. Or at least they stop egg laying and then just hatch out the last of the brood come the beginning of November. Beyond that, it's about nothing.
I also would not feed syrup in cold weather. It injects massive amounts of moisture inside the hives. Once cold weather sets in, consider solid feed. It is far better than unprocessed syrup in comb sitting through winter.
i'm already feeding 2:1. not long until the cold. i don't want a bunch of brood late. we went from very wet to very dry. nothing in between.
Quote from: Hemlock on September 11, 2011, 09:37:19 PM
If you're not in a fall flow you might want to be feeding 1:1 sugar syrup right now. Yes the queen is laying and she'll continue til some time in December or so. Once the days get cool or the nights get chilly up your way feed them 2:1 sugar syrup. The more bees they have going into winter the better.
I have not seen any reason to feed 1:1. Have you ever seen any advantage? As far as I can tell, 3:2 works as well at stimulating wax and brood. And it's easier to mix (less volume to handle), easier for the bees to collect and move (less volume) and causes less moisture buildup in the hive (less total water).
Those bees which feed larvae, will die before wintering cluster.
Like frameschift says, I too cannot see any advantage to accelerate too long brooding.
First of all bees need pollen for larvae and after emeging. Accident will happen if pollen ceases and wintering bees get not enough protein before winter.
I have Italian bees and they use to consume to end their pollen store before autumn.
If you want big colonies for winter, why don't you handle it in summer.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on September 11, 2011, 10:56:58 PM
I have not seen any reason to feed 1:1. Have you ever seen any advantage? As far as I can tell, 3:2 works as well at stimulating wax and brood. And it's easier to mix (less volume to handle), easier for the bees to collect and move (less volume) and causes less moisture buildup in the hive (less total water).
Are you feeding your bees 3:2 right now? If not now when will you start?
Quote from: Hemlock on September 12, 2011, 08:44:07 AM
Are you feeding your bees 3:2 right now? If not now when will you start?
We did a lot of packages and splits this year so we have to build up the hives a bit for winter. Right now I am open feeding 3:2 syrup 100 yds from the hives, and they are drinking it down at more than 1 gallon/day. We have a slight flow on right now but it's not enough.
Actually, I have found that each new package or small split needs 40 lbs of sugar(dry measure) the first year. After that it should not be necessary to feed if you don't over-harvest the honey.
If it's too cold to open feed or use a top feeder, I like Finski's method. He just pours syrup into drawn comb and puts the frames in the hives. I place the frames away from the broodnest. I suspect that reduces backfilling of the broodnest since they tend to process and store the syrup where it is.
Here in North Carolina (and in Virginia too) we are a long way from winter, so I'm not so worried about over-stimulating brood and wax. I'd rather feed now than in November.
I'm curious about Finski's method. How do you keep it from running out, especially when you flip the frame over to pour it in the other side? Or am I missing something?
Dip the frame. ;)
Quote from: diggity on September 12, 2011, 03:30:28 PM
I'm curious about Finski's method. How do you keep it from running out, especially when you flip the frame over to pour it in the other side? Or am I missing something?
cells are a little bit upwards. Then you keep a comb in a slanting potition, about in 70 degree angle. you pour the syrup and the slanting position drives bubbles from the bottom of cells.
Then you let the comb drill a while.
Quote from: diggity on September 12, 2011, 03:30:28 PM
I'm curious about Finski's method. How do you keep it from running out, especially when you flip the frame over to pour it in the other side? Or am I missing something?
You can dip if you want to. Remember that the cells are tilted upward to hold in liquid, so you won't spill much when you flip the frame. Also, the bees don't really want full cells when they are drying the syrup. They usually have the cells about 1/3rd full of nectar as they dry it. So I just pour the syrup over the cells and don't really try to get them full.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on September 12, 2011, 01:11:57 PM
We did a lot of packages and splits this year so we have to build up the hives a bit for winter. Right now I am open feeding 3:2 syrup 100 yds from the hives, and they are drinking it down at more than 1 gallon/day. We have a slight flow on right now but it's not enough.
Actually, I have found that each new package or small split needs 40 lbs of sugar(dry measure) the first year. After that it should not be necessary to feed if you don't over-harvest the honey.
If it's too cold to open feed or use a top feeder, I like Finski's method. He just pours syrup into drawn comb and puts the frames in the hives. I place the frames away from the broodnest. I suspect that reduces backfilling of the broodnest since they tend to process and store the syrup where it is.
2:1 syrup would give the bees more sugar than 3:2. If you want to get them their sugar before November (@40lbs) you can top feed them a gallon of 2:1 each week (8lbs of sugar) for five weeks. Done. Or less than two weeks if you keep the syrup on them.
Though i use 1:1 now i usually switch to 2:1 in October. I went from two to five colonies this year. So most of who i'm feeding are going into their first winter. The older colonies don't mind the syrup boost.
I agree that completing feeding before November is a must to avoid condensation.
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Feeding has nothing to do with condensation. If you feed too late and much water, bees have not time to dry up the syrup and cap it.
Bees take 25 kg sugar as winter syrup in in one week. But they need much time to cap it if out temp is low.
In good temp like in 20C they are quick to cap it.
Too much water makes capping impossible if the bees are partly in winter rest choma. They are lazy to do anything.
Quote from: Hemlock on September 12, 2011, 04:57:51 PM
2:1 syrup would give the bees more sugar than 3:2.
You are right about that, but 2:1 is harder to make. Takes too long to go into solution. I bring 2 gallons of water to a boil, pour into a 5 gallon bucket, and dump in 25lbs of sugar. Stir for about 30 seconds and it's done.
3:2 makes a good all weather feed. It does not go bad for months, even in the hottest summer temperatures. Seems like the all around best compromise to me.