A friend is trying to get rid of a hive, saying it's too aggressive. Wants to know if I'd take it. I've checked out the hive: 2 full deeps, looking healthy, and in my opinion not all that nasty. They're temperamental, but I've had worse.
I already have a couple of hives that are going to be a bit light going into winter: not quite enough bees, definitely not enough honey stored. What would happen if I took this 'hot' hive, pinched the queen, and added 1 box from it (newspaper combine) to each of my light hives? Would the extra population bring in more supplies to get ready for winter? Or would I aggravate my problem: too many bees and not enough stores?
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Bye 2 laying queens from professionals and make two nucs. When queens have settled, kill the mad queens and unite nuc&mad
do the same to your friend's hive.
Things happen even in better families. :-P
I guess that would depend on how much food the new hive is coming in with. You could divide whatever stores are there equally between the two hives when you combine. If they don't have much, then I would think that, yes, the added population would consume your weak hives' stores even faster.
I'm not familiar with your area of what fall flow you may be getting, though, so take that with a huge grain if salt. Sounds like you were going to need to feed anyway, though.
Combine the 2 you already have and keep this as is if it is in as good a shape as implied. I don't mind a 'testy' hive. A mean hive gets fixed.
I would not get rid of a strong hive even if they were defensive. That's what requeening is for.
If i read it right; 2 weak hives and 1 strong hive.
I would combine the 2 weak hives into one. Then accept the strong hive from your friend. Go through winter with 2 strong well populated hives. Then requeen both in April or May. - Or make spring splits from both. Generate your own queens. Requeen the 2 big hives once the new queens show a good brood pattern. This time next year you could have strong 4 hives!
Quote from: yockey5 on September 13, 2011, 03:55:59 PM
Combine the 2 you already have and keep this as is if it is in as good a shape as implied. I don't mind a 'testy' hive. A mean hive gets fixed.
I like this option based on the information given.
...JP
imo, the best chance of a successful overwinter, for ALL your colonies, is to: Leave them alone!!
take your friends colony, no question. You will not (should not) be opening it up and disturbing them any more this season. Figure out a good feeding method, for all of them, that does not disturb them.
poor temperment, poor management, sickness or whatever seems to be ailing this colony will be either improved in the Spring, or they will not make it. the "bad attitude" queen may be the only one who pulls a weak colony through the winter. how do you know?
as for your own colonies. It is approaching the "too late now" zone in this area. you should of been monitoring all season. this has been one of the poorest honey producing seasons in a long time (for most).
make sure they have full sun, are protected from the wind on all six sides, feed em all you can afford and then some! in november put a piece of newspaper on top of the top most box, add an empty super, dump 10lbs of sugar on top, poor a few pounds of honey on top of the sugar, put top cover on and and LEAVE THEM ALONE!!!
for example click: http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#drysugar (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfeeding.htm#drysugar)
Best Wishes and Bee Well...
Going off the info that was given, there are two weakish colonies with low numbers. A combine of the two weak hives with additional feed now could be the ticket to survival. Do nothing and you could lose both and be down to one hive, the pissy one.
Of course if you had the proper resources you could boost the numbers of the two weak hives, perhaps even re-queen each, add feed and all three could make it through.
I'm sure there are other options as well, there always are.
...JP
I would requeen in the spring.
Nuc-ing the weak hives could be another option.
So hard to assess over the internet.
My concern with low numbers would be a take over from wax moth or shb.
Nuc-ing them could be the ticket.
So many options...
...JP
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Terrible advices....leave them alone :shock:
my system is that if the hive geaves to me 20 stings when inspecting, the queen will not leave many minutes. No matter how good it is.
Agressive genes should be weeded out from beeyard. That is called queen breeding.
let me clarify "leave them alone"
dont split them, dont combine them, dont move their frames around, dont requeen, dont open them every other day to check on them. it's too disruptive.
all that should of been done already. you'll have a chance to do all that in the spring. they need to be fed now. get some pollen patties ready for feb-marchish also.
jp's suggestion of moving the two weak colonies into nucs is a great one to battle wm&shb, improve warmth, etc. possibly a two story nuc if you have more than 5 frames of comb. regardless, keep the frames in order from inside to outside and feed them!!!!
you dont really know why the colony is "aggressive". your friend could use too much smoke, checks them every other day, disease, banging dem around, nightly disturbances by critters, or his perception. you said they aren't that bad. more than likely they are not that bad given the unknowns.
everyone should watch this: Mike Palmer 4/2011 The Sustainable Apiary Part 1 of 2 (http://www.vimeo.com/23178333)
Thanks for all the helpful suggestions.
Just to clarify: with my 2 existing light hives, the problem is not numbers. Both are close to 2 full deeps. But they're light on stores. Both have good queens now, but are making up for lost time-- in one case because of a swarm, in the other because it was lagging before I requeened.
And yes, I'm feeding.
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It is relative matter what is hot.
Absolutely limit should be if the colony ruch as big swarm on the beekeeper.
That hive may be lethaly dangerous to by passing people.
Some years ago I had a hive which gove yvery day stings when walking in the yard. I did not know what hive sent those missile. They just stuck on my skin without warning.
In autumn I started to take away honey from the hive. it turned mad a nd it gove about 70 stings in me. Most sting came trough the net to face and neck.
Next day I tried with better luck. Again about 40 stings.
Then I decided to kill it. That kind of colony is really danderous. I could imagine that it was on the side of farm field way and someone passes by. I had handled the hive an it is ready to attack on every moving object. Ok, the person falls down and hundreds of bees are covering unprotected person.
So, I tried to kill them with formalin. Most of bees were allready knocked down but with their last energy they gove me again 30 stings.
Next morning I went early to the hive. It was almost snow rain and I shaked the colony to the freezing ground.
Every year I kill several queens because they show stings too much to me.
Once I byed mite resistant Elqons. They have Monticola blood from Kenya. Crossing Italian x Elgon was really bad. It is easier to handle mites than those tiny Monticola devils
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Quote from: phill on September 14, 2011, 11:08:20 AM
Just to clarify: with my 2 existing light hives, the problem is not numbers. Both are close to 2 full deeps. But they're light on stores. Both have good queens now, but are making up for lost time-- in one case because of a swarm, in the other because it was lagging before I requeened.
And yes, I'm feeding.
If they're light and your feeding then it looks OK. Take the hot colony (more bees!) and requeen next year.
Are you sure about their populations. The boxes should be FULL of bees. A few empty frames might be a concern. What do your fellow local beeks have to say?