What's the best type of strain to start out with as a new bee ???
Apis mellifera.... they are all good.
An italian bee is great they are less likely to swarm then other races. I have bought packages in the past from Hardemans and H&r they were gentle and made large brood nests. Also i had a cordovan italian from Koehen that was extremely gentle and made a very large brood nest. I have some italians but i like the carnolians but they tend to be a little more harder to manage id start with a italian they are great bees make lots of comb and honey. good luck Chris
suggestions for nucs or bee packages within driving distance of the NY tri-state area?
Most of the time Italians are recommended for newbees because they build up quickly and make lots of comb. The counterpoint to that is that they are not frugal on resources and reportedly require much more stored food than do the carniolans or caucasians. They require more stores to overwinter than do their darker cousins who frugally reduce their colony size (while the Italians keep a large size)...I've seen reports where the carniolans even appear to anticipate some situations and begin reducing their numbers ahead of time. The Italians are also reported to be more prone to becoming robber bees. I believe, though, that the Italians are less swarmy than the others.
I'm hoping to end up with more Caucasian and Carniolan genes in my bee yard. I'm shooting for catching some feral colonies/swarms this coming year who knows what genes I'll (hopefully) get from them. :)
So, there you have it, some (maybe) great info straight from the mouth of an ignorant newbee.
Caveat emptor! ;) ...but have fun whatever you do!!!!!
Ed
Boxerdad,
I'm a relative newbee myself but I started off purchasing hybrid Russians three years ago. I wouldn't go with Russians again. I don't think they are too hardy and I've found them to be poor producers. Others love them. Just my personal preference.
I caught like 3 or 4 swarms, did two cut outs, split some, ordered a few Italian queens from Wilbanks, did some combining, and they all mated with feral stock. Now my bees are hybrid everything! Going into winter with eleven colonies down from fourteen.
If I had to do it over again, I think I'd order a few packages of Carniolans or Caucasians just because I've never tried them. But I'm very happy with my mixed bees. I'm not ordering anything this year because I think I'll be pretty busy with swarms and cutouts. I already have 6 cutouts scheduled for spring and advertise in the local paper up here and I've gotten a good many calls from that and from my listing on the Internet.
I keep my hives upstate but I catch a good many swarms here in Queens, where I work, and in Nassau County. Looks like we are neighbors. I keep the swarms and cutouts here for awhile and then bring them upstate. I know a beekeeper from the capital region who supplies local stock from there and from the Adirondacks. Why don't you PM me and we can talk further.
I am new too and I am not going to dwell on what breed of bee to get because the way I figure it out is they are going to breed with other bees in the area and in the long run I will end up without the breed I originaly bought. So I am going with whatever is more economical for me.
I agree Lori. I like my mixed bees. As I said, I'd go with other breeds just to see what they are like.
Just find a honey bee that you can afford that is located close to you. Any bee with a good temper should be fine to start with. Free swarms are a great price. Buy local to get bees grown in your area that way they are not shipped for weeks across the country.
I started with Italians three years ago. I have since tried Caucasion, Russian, and gathered MANY swarms and a couple of cut-outs. While I like them all, I wouldn't recommed Russians to start with. Mine are more aggressive than the rest. They are not unmanageable, but as a newbee, it could just turn you off of beekeeping having to deal with that aggressiveness in your first hives. My ferals have been great producers and tend to thrive better. As for my recommendation, I would try starting with Italians and try gathering some feral stock by catching a swarm or two.
Seems to me (but I am also a neophyte)... bees don't breed, per se. Once a queen is fertile, she determines the makeup of the colony for the next few years. The workers only live for a few weeks. If you grab a swarm or cutout of feral bees, then install a queen of your choice, in a couple of months the bees will all be her descendants. I bought a queen from a local Beek for $20, put her in a cutout and the colony is doing quite well and the bees are very gentle. I would suggest that you ask around and stay local. Who cares what the bee's "Nationality" is.
Have fun!
Quote from: lenape13 on December 04, 2011, 03:20:25 AM
As for my recommendation, I would try starting with Italians and try gathering some feral stock by catching a swarm or two.
X:X X:X X:X
BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
Quote from: lenape13 on December 04, 2011, 03:20:25 AM
As for my recommendation, I would try starting with Italians and try gathering some feral stock by catching a swarm or two.
As for my recommendation=Free bees :-D
Tommyt
i agree feral stock is the best. Just be careful with swarms and cutouts you can bring disease into your apairies chris
Boxerdad go to the web and type in long island beekeepers association im sure someone local in your area will invite you to their meetings and direct you in the right direction for local bees Good luck Chris
If you've never had bees before, then whatever line you choose, please get a package. I really think new beeks should have that nice, honeymoon phase with their new bees. Get into the established hive problems after you've learned to establish your hives!
I second Tommy. Freebees are my favorite.
I second Alicia's recommendation on packages. I've started from scratch 3 different times in the last 30 years and I always started with a package. The very first time I didn't have the faintest idea what I was doing and it still worked out fine.
And I think a new beekeep should start with Italians, the most commonly kept bee in the United States. Once you are familiar with Italians, then you will have something to compare Carnies or Buckfast or Russians to in order to determine what traits you really like.
And I wouldn't necessarily get VSH right out of the gate. I just had my first VSH queen and saw immediately how "sensitive" her offspring were to varroa. I will probably always seek out VSH queens from here on out, but I wouldn't have understood the real difference if I hadn't had regular old Italians first.
Well, I've been reading this thread for a while, and though I'm not confident I could give good advice, but I can offer observations.
"Beginning Beekeeper" is a vague label. While it denotes an individual beginning the art of keeping bees, there are different kinds. Some people will like White Bread, some people will only eat Whole Grain...
- Has all the equipment.
- Makes all the equipment.
- Buys all the equipment.
Sometimes somebody comes into the equipment and decides to get bees to see how things work. Chances are if they have the equipment they either know something about the bees or know somebody who keeps them. In that case they might get the bees from their contact.
Those who build their own equipment are most likely to catch their own swarm. They will either build a trap, get on the swarm list, or otherwise pick up a colony. Of course this individual will be the most experimentive, and probably put up with whatever fate throws their way.
If you buy it all, you're probably interested in getting the honey. There are probably other factors, saving the bees for example, that trigger starting it up.
I know I'm generalizing, and that's trouble. But this would be the factor involved in how the beginner obtains his bees. All bees are basically Feral. I find the concept of a domesticated insect hard to wrap my head around. The only thing determining the demeanor of the colony is the way they react to pheromones. The well bred bees are selected for brood, foraging, and gentleness. Now days, also hygienic behavior and resistance to parasites.
I asked the president of our association if he used a "breeder" queen, thinking that meant artificial insemination. He said yes, then when I discovered the insemination was not part of the equation he replied, "Well my breeder queen is the queen that makes the best production!" The only thing the queen breeder has control over is the genetics of the queen.
So getting a "type" of bee is possible. Getting a "breed" of bee is a crap shoot. I read somewhere a breeder of Russian queens would give queens to his neighbors to increase the chances his queens were the right breed, and after 10 or so years most of the bees in the general area would have most or all of the characteristics.
All in all, go to a local beekeeping association and ask who might have some bees to sell or give away. You could probably find a Mentor there as well as pick up some information about keeping them locally. Somebody there may already be raising queens, so if you get a swarm and are not satisfied with their behavior, you can requeen.
If you ask me, I would buy a Nucleus hive. A nuc has everything except the space. It would be the least trouble to get in order. Package bees will have to build the comb and start the brood. A nuc already has 3-5 frames already drawn out and filled with baby bees, not to mention the queen is settled. Whomever is selling the nuc should have some idea of the behavior of that colony.
Me? right now I have one I caught in a trap, I had one that absconded that I picked up as a swarm, one was given to me, and the last is a split I requeened. They'z teh nice beez...
I have had the best luck with local "mutts" seem to have the right combination of traits to survive and are workable but if handled carelessly can get agressive QUICK. Italians are calm bees and good producers, Russians winter better and start earlier but can get pissy too but neither survive as well as the cut out bees I bring home or the out yards where they have been breeding with local drones for years. Just my 2 cents. Ask 10 diffrent beeks the same question and you will get at least 10 diffrent answers.
I have to say the my free bees are doing the best, BUT you better be suited up when you work them. That part I do not like and will be requeening them this spring. I have 3 small children and grouchy productive bees are not worth the risk.
Local bees. Mutts. Don't focus on Russians, Italians, Carnie's, etc. Get involved in a local bee club. Get some recommendations on who sells nucs of locally-raised bees.