With all the talk of insulated hives,i have not seen any reference to the beemax hives available here in the US. Is anyone using them? If so,are you happy with them?
Yes, I use them and am extremely happy with them. Despite the fear that they will be fragile, they are actually quite tough. Even if you do break them, a little glue and they are good as new. I was even able to salvage them after a bear incident, where the wooded hives where not.
I also find they winter much better here in the north. Use about 25-30% less stores than comparable wooden hives.
I don't particularly like the beemax bottom boards, prefer to use my own.
The only issue I have has with them is acrobat ants boring into them and making a nest. I submerged the empty super in water (not an easy task) for a few days which solved the problem.
Robo,
Will conventional supers fit the beemax hive bodies?
Yes they can, the inside dimensions are the same. In fact, I still use wooden honey supers. I only use the beemax for deeps.
(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_0596.JPG)
Do you have any issues with sunlight deteriorating the plastic? I know it messes up the sheet stuff from the lumber yard.
UV will cause it to "rot". Simply painting it prevents that. I do have a couple unpainted pieces that are going on 2 years old. They have yellowed, but still seem pretty solid.
QuoteThe only issue I have has with them is acrobat ants boring into them and making a nest.
I haven't used the bee max yet, but I've had this same problem with my homemade insulated hives. Wax moths can also drill some rather impressive holes in my low density foam hives when they pupate!
I had too much condensation and I was converting to eight frames and they only come in 10...
As Rob pointed out about the bottom boards and the hive top feeders need improvement. Pros: are the amount of syrup it holds. Cons : The acrylic material between the bees and the reservoir will not provide much in the way of ventilation. I have some with small drilled holes in the top and some replaced with wire cloth. The bottoms are flat and do not provide good bee space to frames. Glued strips on before painting has held up well.
.
Half of my polyboxes are 20 years old. They have not deteriorated in sun. They will stand to rest of my life.
Some are rough but I will turn them that shadow wall will be next 20 years agaist sun. Then my age is 85 y.
But Finski are you going to be able to lift deep Langstroth boxes at 85 years old?
Quote from: Michael Bush on February 11, 2012, 11:18:10 PM
I had too much condensation and I was converting to eight frames and they only come in 10...
I see the Northern Europeans are using the epe boxes with what looks like wide open bottom boards with mouse guards. If the bottom entrance worked with the cluster to provide a circulation, would enough moisture leave thru the bottom board? It would seem to me that if the water ran down the sides, it would freeze at the entrances blocking them? I may have to do a test here next winter, but I fear I have too many warm days and their uniformly cold conditions might radically change the equation. They are insulated covers and bottom boards, is that why they work? Are the beemax bottomboards insulated? Covers?
I have a few poly hive boxes that are 33 years old , so they seem to last !
In the winter the air is cold and DRY , we ventilate out through the hive bottom , yes the walls can get frosty , haven't had any hives freeze shut , but dead bees can reduce ventilation so I use a high bottom board , a bout 8 cm under the lowest frame . It is ok that the walls have condensation as long as the bees are dry.
I don't know if poly hives work with top ventilation !?
We use big boxes for brood and 3/4 langstroth for harvesting , they way about 17kg , don't forget to bend your knees ;)
If you have poly hives that have become yellow from UV light , wash and brush them clean so they become white and give they a coat of paint and they will last many more years.
mvh edward :-P
Quote from: BlueBee on February 12, 2012, 06:21:51 PMare you going to be able to lift deep Langstroth boxes at 85 years old?
I don't think its the honey that makes beekeepers live longer lives , its the workout beekeeper get i the bee yard harvesting all the heavy honey boxes , not a job for the feeble and frail :brian: :chop: :chop: :chop: :brian:
mvh edward :-P
Quote from: edward on February 12, 2012, 09:03:35 PM
Quote from: BlueBee on February 12, 2012, 06:21:51 PMare you going to be able to lift deep Langstroth boxes at 85 years old?
I don't think its the honey that makes beekeepers live longer lives , its the workout beekeeper get i the bee yard harvesting all the heavy honey boxes , not a job for the feeble and frail :brian: :chop: :chop: :chop: :brian:
mvh edward :-P
Are you sure it is not from the good mead that keeps us going ? :-D
OK I´ll try anything :cheer: once .. ... .... or maybee twice :cheer: :cheer:
Wasn't it the vikings that invented mead :-D ?
mvh edward :-P
Edward When you say the inside gets frosy, does that include ice on the underside of the lid over the bees? Does it ever drip down on the bees and damage them?
I haven't looked that much inside my hives in the winter , better to leave them alone , but I have never seen frost on top of the bees , inside the hive.
Also after snow storms when checking on hives finding them buried in snow and not having a shovel , thinking that surely they are going to suffocate.
3-4 days later when I come back with a snow shovel the snow has blown away from the hive leaving an air space around it + the girls are fine.
I don't exactly know how or why it works but i does , I just listen to the more experienced beekeeper and do the same as them , I think that you just need to choose a way too keep your bees and the bees will adapt to the dynamics of the hive they have.
The bees survive despite the beekeepers ideas ;)
mvh edward :-P
Quote from: edward on February 13, 2012, 03:34:11 AM
, but I have never seen frost on top of the bees , inside the hive.
Quote from: edward on February 12, 2012, 08:57:30 PM
I don't know if poly hives work with top ventilation !?
Edward uses mesh floor like all modern beekeepers. I use solid floor and 15 mm upper entrance.
I have seen frost = condensated moisture in hive corners. It is normal.
When it melts, it drills out via bottom. - Or it forms thick ice layer on bottom. It makes no harm to bees.
I have seem thick ice sticks hanging in top bars of the frames.
Quote from: edward on February 12, 2012, 08:57:30 PM
We use big boxes for brood and 3/4 langstroth for harvesting , they way about 17kg , don't forget to bend your knees ;)
It has same dimensions as American medium frame.
How strong are the frame rests on these hive? Can you pry frames apart and out without destroying the rests or the hive? That seems like it would be the weak point, but I would like to try these. Maybe the propolis doesn't stick as tightly as with wood?
My poly hives have a hard plastic bar that the frames rest upon , with out it the hive wont last long and the heavy honey frames will not move easily.
Propolis is not much of a problem , depends on the bees , some hives have bars that can bee removed and cleaned , some are solid.
The hive tool takes care of the propolis .
At bigger meetings the Swedish bee keeping society always has a 10 minute break with lessons on how to lift boxes in the bee yards and extraction houses , easy to forget and fall back on bad habits.
Light hives and ergonomic lifting means we can keep bee keeping longer and healthier + we can also make things easier for the human girls in the bee yard :bee:
mvh edward :-P
Quote from: Vance G on February 13, 2012, 01:46:43 AMEdward When you say the inside gets frosy, does that include ice on the underside of the lid over the bees? Does it ever drip down on the bees and damage them?
Gave this a little thought today on the commute to work.
Warm air should rise above the bees and fall down on the outer walls that are colder , like the back wall in a fridge condensate the dampness in the air.
Maybee this is why bees coat the inside of the outer walls of a hive with propolis , antibacterial = no mould .
Just my thoughts in my car :-D
mvh edward :P
Quote from: Hethen57 on February 13, 2012, 05:18:53 PM
How strong are the frame rests on these hive? Can you pry frames apart and out without destroying the rests or the hive? That seems like it would be the weak point, but I would like to try these. Maybe the propolis doesn't stick as tightly as with wood?
I have had no issue with frame rest, in fact I like them a heck of a lot better than wood langs. They are a hard plastic L shape and you don't squish any bees when putting frames in. I have even used HSC which are a much heavier frame and they work great. Very little propolis with the beemax hives.
My only issue (not the beemax fault) is that I don't glue the frame rests in and occasionally one will fall out when the box is empty man handled around. Beemax are nice to move, you can toss them across the room and not hurt them one bit :-D
I just find them really expensive for what they are. The overhead cost cannot be that high in production. I feel like a styrofoam box should cost less than a wooden one - not more.
Adam
Quote from: Adam Foster Collins on February 16, 2012, 10:44:51 AM
I just find them really expensive for what they are. The overhead cost cannot be that high in production. I feel like a styrofoam box should cost less than a wooden one - not more.
That is a common opinion from those who have never owned them.
1) They are the same price as un-assembled select grade wood hive bodies (betterbee). Comparing to select grade is fair since they don't come with knots or other defects.
2) They require no glue or nails to assemble and require much less time (making them cheaper)
3) My bees use 25-30% less stores in the winter (less money I spend if I need to feed)
4) They are not your standard styrofoam coolers, they are much denser and stronger, I would venture as stong as wood hive bodies. The joints never loosen up and they are easier to fix than wood if they are broken.
5) It appears mine will last longer than my wooden hive bodies.
When I look at the big picture, they ARE cheaper for me in the long run than wooden hive bodies.
They also provide the option to be easily broken down for storage or transportation which wood does not.
http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/portable-double-nucs/ (http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/portable-double-nucs/)
If everyone liked vanilla, they wouldn't make chocolate :-D
I think that I will try a few of these this year too. I just don't like their tops and bottoms and will just make some out of wood. What holds them together if you don't glue or screw?
Rob, I need a better view of your bottom board on the deeps. You are always a step ahead of us.
Its a tight fit , that holds them together , but they fit better and last longer if glued together.
I buy the poly boxes that solid one piece.
If they crack or break they are easily mended with waterproof wood glue and a few screws.
mvh edward :P
I could not find any one piece polystyrene boxes in the USA, last time I looked for them
Quote from: edward on February 16, 2012, 06:26:41 PM
If they crack or break they are easily mended with waterproof wood glue and a few screws.
mvh edward :P
the glue must be polyurethane glue. It is good to use repairing pieces too, if you repair woodpecker damages.
You spray a little bit water mist on surfaces. Polyurethane will be hardened by water.
It makes a little bit foam and stucks even narrow gaps.
Quote from: tefer2 on February 16, 2012, 05:27:02 PM
I think that I will try a few of these this year too. I just don't like their tops and bottoms and will just make some out of wood. What holds them together if you don't glue or screw?
Rob, I need a better view of your bottom board on the deeps. You are always a step ahead of us.
You want the top to have a higher R-value than the sides so it doesn't become a condensation point.
I use 2" foil sided (so bees can't chew through it) insulation board for winter covers (with or without a 2" sugar shim). Put a piece of coroplast or regular telescoping top on top.
(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_winterhive.jpg)
The beemax box joints are angled and locks them together. Glue is not needed. I have a new bottom board design that I have been testing for a couple years now that I like. I try to post some photos/plans at some point. The ones you see in most of my pictures is just the bottom board from Killions "Honey in the Comb" resided to fit the beemax. It is based off of CC Miller's design.
(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_0648.JPG)(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_0649.JPG)
It's to open for me, I like the slatted rack though. Whats the piece of rope do? Or is it a sensor wire?
I'll look for the newer design later.
Quote from: tefer2 on February 16, 2012, 08:52:20 PM
It's to open for me, I like the slatted rack though.
They got blocked off for the winter. Don't have a good picture, this was a double nuc with top entrances, but you get the idea.
(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_0589.JPG)
Quote
Whats the piece of rope do? Or is it a sensor wire?
It's the cord for my poor man's heater.
(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG_0647.JPG)
.
I do myself the covers and bottom boards. They are expencive to by. And poly bottom board is difficult to keep clean.
Then I like wood because it is easy to clean with propane torch.
I may use recycled wood and foam plastic mattresses. Inner cover materials are free to me and I get high level construction.
No I will do my next bottom boards so that floor is slanting. Water drills out. In summer all small rubbish too drills out via entrance.
I got good recycling polycarbon board for bottoms. I noticed that it forms a huge condensation moisture on surface. So I will insulate the bottom too.
Ply decays fast in bottom board. I do not like it.
In worst cases a simple bottom board is a dirty pool. Moisture, water, rubbish and dead bees.
.you must see a little bit pain to make a bottom which is easy to bees to keep clean.
Robo, I think you posted your heater before, but how did that work out for you ?
Quote from: tefer2 on February 17, 2012, 09:47:26 AM
Robo, I think you posted your heater before, but how did that work out for you ?
It worked well for wooden hives, but is unneeded with the poly hives.
Quote from: Robo on February 17, 2012, 12:58:43 PM
It worked well for wooden hives, but is unneeded with the poly hives.
I use heaters in Spring build up in April and May. In big hives results are tremeandous. With patty and heating I get 3 fold build up speed compared to natural system.
Me and a friend have ordered these beemax hives from betterbees.com. We have set them up and painted them with exterior latex paint. My question is that it didn't come with any hive entrance reducer and the bottom bored is just a screen with nothing below it. Is anything needed below the bottom board that was supplied, and also is any enterance reducer needed. this is our first go at beekeeping and want to be prepared as possible. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Quote from: bostonboy1128 on March 26, 2012, 06:35:00 PM
Me and a friend have ordered these beemax hives from betterbees.com. We have set them up and painted them with exterior latex paint. My question is that it didn't come with any hive entrance reducer and the bottom bored is just a screen with nothing below it. Is anything needed below the bottom board that was supplied, and also is any enterance reducer needed. this is our first go at beekeeping and want to be prepared as possible. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Please let us know how your order with Betterbee goes. I heard they were having a bit of trouble last year completing orders.
I'm not a fan of their bottom boards, but you should be OK with using as is. It wouldn't hurt to reduce the entrance down until they get established.
and how about additional ventilation come next fall/winter? Do I need to add (drill) any holes in my PS boxes, or any straw above my inner cover? Or is the natural ventilation in the beemax PS hive sufficient?
Thanks again for the assistance.
I use no upper ventilation in mine with great results -> http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,36119.0.html (http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,36119.0.html)
I have six hives all original bee max deeps and supers and happy with them as they winter well. I made 1.5 inch by 1.5 inch shims for the bottom boards and leave them on all year around. I also made the same shims for the top with a ventilation whole in the front. The top shim needs to be to be a 1 1/4 inch on the front to allow the bees to get in and out under the top cover. It helps in the winter in the event you have to emergency feed them. You take the top and inner cover off for a quick inspection or installation of feed without disturbing the boxes or installing any other mediums or deeps.
It would be nice if they would make the bee max in the 8 frame configuration.
DM
Robo,
What is the two inch bar going around the top of your hive? Is that a custom made piece? Is it for insulation? Is it lined with somthing metallic? Do you leave it on all year? Do you use an inner cover with it? Sorry for the noob questions, but as I said I'm just starting out.
Thanks,
Quote from: bostonboy1128 on March 29, 2012, 01:12:50 PM
Robo,
What is the two inch bar going around the top of your hive? Is that a custom made piece? Is it for insulation? Is it lined with somthing metallic? Do you leave it on all year? Do you use an inner cover with it? Sorry for the noob questions, but as I said I'm just starting out.
Thanks,
It is a insulation shim made out of 2" foil backed foam board. Foil prevents the bees from chewing through it. I use the same material for the cover. Without the shim, there is not enough room to feed sugar or pollen patties. By putting it on in the fall, the bees have time to seal up the cracks and get the air tight nest they desire.
(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/winterhive.jpg)
(http://photos.beevac.com/albums/userpics/10001/Spring_Bee_Feeding_003.JPG)
It is put on in the fall, and taken off in the spring before any flow starts to prevent them from filling it with comb. If the timing is right, I get none to very little comb built in the space. Occasionally, I do get a hive that fills it with comb, but if caught early enough in the spring, it can be removed before the queen lays eggs in it.
No inner cover is used with it, the 2" cover foam board is places right on top. Then I either put a piece of coroplast election sign or a telescopic wood cover as shown in the picture. This just gives the insulation board a little protection and stores the cover until spring.
In spring, the shim and insulation cover are removed and standard wooded honey supers are put on top with standard inner cover and telescopic cover.
Purpose being you don't want anything with a lower r-value than the hive bodies otherwise it can be a place of condensation. By keeping the insulation values high, my hives stay bone dry. Not to mention, the heat retention allows them to raise brood faster and in larger quantities as shown in the picture. Brood needs heat, so any heat you allow to escape reduces the amount of brood they can raise.
Just FYI, I had some non-foil backed insulation board given to me this year and I made some shims out of it and lined it with a layer of clear shipping tape and it worked fine.
Beemax hives have an R-value of about 3, correct?. When I bought mine, they sent me a telescopic cover that has an R-Value of 6.5 (the same, that I can tell, as your foiled insulation shim), therefore I would not need the shim, unless I needed extra room for patties/feeding emergencies, correct?
Quote from: woodchopper on March 27, 2012, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: bostonboy1128 on March 26, 2012, 06:35:00 PM
Me and a friend have ordered these beemax hives from betterbees.com. We have set them up and painted them with exterior latex paint. My question is that it didn't come with any hive entrance reducer and the bottom bored is just a screen with nothing below it. Is anything needed below the bottom board that was supplied, and also is any enterance reducer needed. this is our first go at beekeeping and want to be prepared as possible. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Please let us know how your order with Betterbee goes. I heard they were having a bit of trouble last year completing orders.
I ordered them in January and got within a week. Only complaint is the high shipping costs..for anything (small or big)...
Quote from: bostonboy1128 on March 29, 2012, 05:39:32 PM
Quote from: woodchopper on March 27, 2012, 09:29:21 PM
Quote from: bostonboy1128 on March 26, 2012, 06:35:00 PM
Me and a friend have ordered these beemax hives from betterbees.com. We have set them up and painted them with exterior latex paint. My question is that it didn't come with any hive entrance reducer and the bottom bored is just a screen with nothing below it. Is anything needed below the bottom board that was supplied, and also is any enterance reducer needed. this is our first go at beekeeping and want to be prepared as possible. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.
Please let us know how your order with Betterbee goes. I heard they were having a bit of trouble last year completing orders.
I ordered them in January and got within a week. Only complaint is the high shipping costs..for anything (small or big)...
Mann-Lake has free shipping for all orders over $100 and Brushy Mt. has free shipping for a few weeks at the end of every year. If you plan ahead you can prevent ever having to pay those high shipping cost ever again.
QuoteMann-Lake has free shipping for all orders over $100 and Brushy Mt. has free shipping for a few weeks at the end of every year. If you plan ahead you can prevent ever having to pay those high shipping cost ever again.
Neither sell polystyrene equipment
Quote from: bostonboy1128 on March 29, 2012, 05:23:36 PM
Beemax hives have an R-value of about 3, correct?. When I bought mine, they sent me a telescopic cover that has an R-Value of 6.5 (the same, that I can tell, as your foiled insulation shim), therefore I would not need the shim, unless I needed extra room for patties/feeding emergencies, correct?
I have used the BeeMax covers with no inner cover, and they work just as well. You just don't have room to feed.