lots of the O word going around in the threads these days-- :lol:
http://usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome?contentid=2012/02/0051.xml&navid=NEWS_RELEASE&navtype=RT&parentnav (http://usda.gov/wps/portal/usda/usdahome?contentid=2012/02/0051.xml&navid=NEWS_RELEASE&navtype=RT&parentnav)
OK, I'll go first.
What a bunch of CRAP!
Most really conscience consumers, who really want to purchase "organic" goods, are many times also concerned with the environment if you ask them.
I look at it this way....When a consumer buys an organic Shae butter bar of soap, what is the reason? Is it because the overpriced bar of soap is really far superior to another bar of soap? I'm sure some will say yes. As it is a fine soap. But that same consumer when asked, gives the false suggestion that buying organic, helps the environment in some manner. "Organic" in many consumers minds, means that the products were made with few if any chemicals. So they get a warm fuzzy feeling buying the organic bar of soap, thinking they are helping the environment, beyond their own personal desire to limit the amount of chemicals they put on their face.
But, when 14 of the 18 ingredients are shipped in from around the globe in efforts to only use 'organic" ingredients in the production, who is really foolong who? How can anyone assume that buying a Shae butter organic bar of soap is any better for the environment, when considering the trucks, planes, shipping, etc., of getting all the ingredients to make the goods.
I would rather buy local first. Then organic, if I can, second. Support local agriculture. Support your neighbors.
Know how far the average tomato travels before it finds the consumer's table in the country? 1200 miles. Think about that. And yet most folks will buy this product even when local produce is available at the local farm market. And while I am not advocating government control, why would consumers buy a 6 dollar bottle of water shipped in from France so they can sip from a fancy bottle, when the water is no better than what comes from the tap in the restaurant selling the foreign bottle? It's just nuts.
I could go on about the problems with organic food production and the false warm fuzzy feeling some get. I don't buy much in the way of organics that are shipped half way around the world. I do however buy as much as I can from local agriculture. And if I know the producer, and can get organic on top of that, that is where my dollars go. I will not buy an organic Shae butter bar of soap if a source of soap is available from artisan soap makers, like local goat milk soaps. And I don't buy tomatoes shipped in from 1200 miles away, because they are organic, when local sources are available, even if they are not organic.
How could anyone from Europe get a warm fuzzy feeling because they can now buy American organic products, when probably 99% of those products are probably locally sourced in their own country. This is great for large conglomerates. But I see smaller producers and consumers, this being a non-issue.
I do not buy all my products at organic sources. And I think everyone can do what they want. I offer this up to perhaps have others think about the nonsense that many times goes along with the blind consumer who is out to do nothing more than get warm fuzzy feelings. I spoke of those issues with using "organic" with honey in February 2011: http://www.bjornapiaries.com/beekramblings201112.html (http://www.bjornapiaries.com/beekramblings201112.html)
;)
>>I would rather buy local first. Then organic, if I can, second. Support local agriculture. Support your neighbors.
X:X X:X X:X
Quote from: ray on February 16, 2012, 11:25:00 AM
>>I would rather buy local first. Then organic, if I can, second. Support local agriculture. Support your neighbors.
X:X X:X X:X
Ditto.
yes lots of problems with the producing of true organic goods--but the consumers heart is in the right place for there desire
to buy a product with a benififcal outcome--its the consumer base thats increasing and awareness follows-its the support
of the consumer that benefits the organic industry-and it can benefit the Beekeeping Industry as well-this is a growth
event that will help balance the fulcrum of pesticide and GMO and start a transparency that we dont have-the European
market takes the organic issue very seriously-RDY-B
And I believe the European market either doesn't allow GMO or has to have it labeled. We shoot ourselves in the foot trade wise in America by the stuff we do in agriculture. It limits our trade options.
That said, I don't believe food should be transcontinental. It makes absolutely no sense to me to have tomatoes shipped here from Spain when I can use my own frozen/dried/canned from all summer, or even get them from California. I think food is something that should be as local as possible.
A few years ago, I cut out almost all foods not grown in America. It was a little hard to give up grapes in winter, and we still get coffee, tea, chocolate, spices, occasionally bananas. Other than that, if it's fresh food the farthest it comes from is CA. And probably 75% of our food is now grown by us.
I totally agree with bjornbee:
"How could anyone from Europe get a warm fuzzy feeling because they can now buy American organic products, when probably 99% of those products are probably locally sourced in their own country. This is great for large conglomerates. But I see smaller producers and consumers, this being a non-issue."
In this era of dwindling fossil fuels along with India and China growing in leaps and bounds, we should try to get our food much, much closer to home. In our organic CSA, I seriously don't want my customers from any further than 15 miles away and I strongly encourage them to form groups of 5-6 families to take turns driving to get their food each week to save fuel.
Okay, stepping off my soapbox :)
yes yes yes --But to be effective in the ever donting task to be sustainable with your bees and your crops
you need a BIGER CONSUMER BASE than can be provided in a BACKYARD OR 5-6 MILE RADIUS--there needs
to be change of continental proportion to have impact against monopolizing AG conglomerates -now smaller
operators have a opportunity to export-and share there voice with a positive tone--its not all bad --- 8-) RDY-B
I'm reading A Nation of Farmers, in which the authors propose us going back to a more ag-based society, 3 million farmers of small farms, sustainable, getting almost all food local again. It's an interesting thought :)
Interesting yes but what is going on in my area is people that go to the source only make a small portion of the sales--
farmers have to travel to the people we do this in the form of farmers markets -we travel to the inner cites-we promote
the value of our crops over store bought-thats what exports is for-regional staples in one area going to others that cant
enjoy the luxury of citrus or Honey -environmental conditions arnt adequate for year round production-hard to image only eating what you could grow --- :) RDY-B
**How could anyone from Europe get a warm fuzzy feeling because they can now buy American organic products, when probably 99% of those products are probably locally sourced in their own country. This is great for large conglomerates. But I see smaller producers and consumers, this being a non-issue.**
THe warm and fuzzys is for the farmer who now can sell his product without have to have two certifications
one US and one EUR -this alone saves him the funds that he needs to export with-and if the europeans want to get fresh strawberries they will surely buy them-this trade act is of great benefit to the small producer and the smaller niche
markets that will open behind it ;) RDY-B
Quote from: rdy-b on February 16, 2012, 11:37:04 PM
-environmental conditions arnt adequate for year round production-hard to image only eating what you could grow --- :) RDY-B
We were picking kale and spinach well in Dec. Yes, it has been a mild WI winter. Lots of farmers around here are using hoophouses for nearly year-round production.
And, canning, freezing and drying easily allow us to eat our own food year round, just like they did in the olden days.
thats a very nice thing - :) but we dont live in the olden days- :) we have to adjust our progress for the current and future
generations of the* immediate gratification *high tec age -what you speak of is change in values to find a higher level of self gratification through labors endeavors ----i wonder how they will do it in space when the time comes ;) RDY-B
rdy-b--If you're saying the vast majority of the population won't preserve their own food, possibly not. However, we have about 30 families who get their food from us 4-30 weeks out of the year, we offer canning classes and there definitely IS a trend in America in moving more towards self sufficiency.
If gas prices go out of control, food will become astronomically expensive, or gov't taxes to subsidize farmers to keep food prices low will become very expensive.
I really think we will be seeing more and more people trying to get back to the basics of growing their own food. Just like in the wars of decades ago. It takes very little land, and there are some awesome urban agriculture projects happening here in WI.
** we have about 30 families who get their food from us 4-30 weeks out of the year, we offer canning classes and there definitely IS a trend in America **
and whats going on in Europe?-the organic farmers need this export --the small niche marketing in the US is commendable but its been
a ball and chain for growth and is basically a last stand footing against corporate AG-and the little guy is losing-I dont know
why you oppose the partnership in trade ???-save the sinking ship--RDY-B
I'm not sure I know enough about it to oppose it.
What I do know is that a TINY portion of Americans get their food from local farms. Seems like we could feed those people before we start trying to find export markets.
And I do think it is a strange insanity to buy tomatoes from Europe when your neighbor is growing them 1 mile away. I cannot tell you how many times someone comes up to my farmer's market table, sees my organic, gorgeous, heirloom lettuce mix and says "Ohhhh.... I just bought lettuce at the grocery store!" And I want to say, "Why would you do a crazy thing like that during the farmer's market season?"
Their lettuce probably traveled across America. Mine came 10 miles. Yes, I think that's insane. Let's import/export things we can't actually get access to otherwise.
And if you're concerned about the farmer, I probably get 2-4 times more $ selling it directly to my neighbors than trying to wholesale it across the ocean or anywhere wholesale. I would MUCH rather have a direct source for my food.
** I just bought lettuce at the grocery store!"**
thats consumer speak for your price is to high- ;)
** I probably get 2-4 times more $ selling it directly to my neighbors **
and now your posts have comes full circle- :)
**I'm not sure I know enough about it to oppose it.**
fair enough -- 8-) RDY-B
Here is a picture of a pack of tomatoes I found at the market a couple months back. Tomato's from Canada. Not that I have anything against Canada, but come on, we can't produce what we need without going north of the border for our produce? Or is it easier and cheaper to import from Canada due to government over reach and obstruction here? It's not all the imports are from third world countries producing cheap food. Something just does not add up.
(http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x236/BjornBee/DSCN2856.jpg)
Depending on which part of Canada, it might be closer for me to get tomatoes from Canada than California! I'd rather wait for summer for my own fresh tomatoes, though.
Quote from: luvin honey on February 17, 2012, 07:16:26 PM
Depending on which part of Canada, it might be closer for me to get tomatoes from Canada than California! I'd rather wait for summer for my own fresh tomatoes, though.
Most of the rest of the country has been trying to give Wisconsin to Canada for years. :-D
What?!? I've been hearing news about letting go of Texas and Arizona--but WI?!? :'(
Quote from: luvin honey on February 16, 2012, 08:20:11 PM... It was a little hard to give up grapes in winter, and we still get coffee, tea, chocolate, spices, [&] occasionally bananas...
Are those bananas grown in Ice Land?
As I freely admitted already, we are not 100% local in our consumption. But we are way, way more than we used to be. Even our milk, eggs, flour, 95% of meat come from within 6 miles or our own farm.
I still buy plenty of spices, treats, coffee, tea, chocolate, sugar, some fresh fruit and veggies and winter and I'm sure other things I'm not thinking of right now from the store.
I'm not trying to make any point other than that we could all eat a lot more local than we may think. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Nations have always traded things like salt and spices. I just find it crazy to buy things from across the planet that I could grow in my own yard.