Why does it help the bees to have hives on stands? I have top entrances so the bee eating varmits or ants are not a concern. I live in a high wind area and I can't see the extra ventilation being of any possible benefit to me. I am not migratory and a pallet just strikes me as a place for a rattlesnake to live and get me some fine morning. What are the benefits please?
Around here they are raised to keep the skunks away. I would rather have skunks than rattlesnakes. :-D
I would think it would depend on which part of the country that you're in whether you *can* place the hives on the ground. Vance, I don't know if you've ever dealt with Argentine fire ants or not, but them and their cousins will quickly build a bed right beneath or beside something sitting on the ground and create tons of misery for all involved. In our warm humid environment hive boxes and bottom boards wouldn't last too long sitting on the ground unless they were made of something rot resistant. Also, if they're not on a stand then if you're using a screened bottom board it negates it's usefulness.
Ed
I can't think of any benefits to a hive stand unless you have ant problems like Swamp says. My hives set on the ground on a slab of foam.
Tefer, we do have rattlesnakes in Michigan! They are rare: http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12201-32995--,00.html (http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12145_12201-32995--,00.html)
I am fasr north of fire ants and the ones that build nest under my hives, don't bother anything. I used to worry aobut them, but they do no harm.
Quote from: Vance G on March 01, 2012, 11:02:52 PM
I am fasr north of fire ants and the ones that build nest under my hives, don't bother anything. I used to worry aobut them, but they do no harm.
You can put your hand down on something that a fire ant bed is built against...inside of 5-10 seconds your hand and part of your forearm can be covered by them...and they sting like a miniature yellow jacket but in large numbers. If you're in a highly infested area you have to be very careful where you walk and stand or you can really get hurt. The fire ants wipe out native ants. Pray you never get them up your way.
Ed
I don't know if my stands help my bees at all, but they help me. Mine are about 18" off the ground and I made them big enough for 2 hives but I only put one on each. That leaves me enough room to put lids, boxes, frames, smokers, hive tools etc on while I am working with them or doing inspections. It's more of a convenience for my back and keeping any frames I pull out from sitting in the dirt. On the other hand, all of the boxes I pull off are 18" higher up than they would be if they weren't on the stand. It also keeps the guard bees away from my ankles and pant legs :shock: The 4 legs help make it easier with the ant control which is more of a problem with weak colonies and during the beginning of winter / dearth.
Old Blue
Taxed, fee'd and taxed some more in...
Kali-bone-ya
I like my hive stands because I can look up underneath and see the activity going on in the hive without opening it. I am also 6'3 so it makes inspections easier on my back, although I do set the cover on the ground and then stack the upper deep on it when im going to the bottom deep.
I also like my hive stands because they are very portable yet strong and I can fit two hives on them. Around here we dont have fire ants (thank God!) but we have Argentina ants and they are a pain in the butt and will consume a hive. I put PVC pipe caps under each leg and fill them with water during the winter and then fill them with oil when the rains go away. This creates an ant moat and the hives are protected!
I also run SBB so the mites that do get knocked off the bees end up 16" below the hives, no chance of getting back in!!
My purpose for stands is to keep the bottom boards from rotting and to make it easy to level 14 hives at once instead of one at a time...
Thanks all. I was wondering if it was some health or environmental benefit for the bees. I guess your ants and wet and rot are a good trade off for it being 20 degrees now with snow on the ground. I was really hoping Finski would come on and tell me I was crazier than a laplander raising reindeer in Florida or some such homely wisdom.
Quote from: Vance G on March 02, 2012, 12:23:25 PM
Thanks all. I was wondering if it was some health or environmental benefit for the bees. I guess your ants and wet and rot are a good trade off for it being 20 degrees now with snow on the ground. I was really hoping Finski would come on and tell me I was crazier than a laplander raising reindeer in Florida or some such homely wisdom.
I'll tell you instead of finski... you are crazier than a half naked Geordie on a saturday night in january! :)
The bees would prefer 15ft... 18" is a modest compromise
@18" you can make it mouse proof ...
18" puts the brood box at a good working height.
@18" means anything falling out cant get back in unless it flys.... thats good!
18" means its out of the snow unless its really deep...
18" is 18" less of melting snow drenching the bottom of the hive an getting it cold in spring
@18" spores and bacteria from rain splashed mud dont get on the hive
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/derekm_2008_photo/IMAG0108.jpg)
derekm, is that your hive stands in the picture? How do they perform in high winds?
Quote from: derekm on March 02, 2012, 12:37:40 PM
Quote from: Vance G on March 02, 2012, 12:23:25 PM
Thanks all. I was wondering if it was some health or environmental benefit for the bees. I guess your ants and wet and rot are a good trade off for it being 20 degrees now with snow on the ground. I was really hoping Finski would come on and tell me I was crazier than a laplander raising reindeer in Florida or some such homely wisdom.
I'll tell you instead of finski... you are crazier than a half naked Geordie on a saturday night in january! :)
The bees would prefer 15ft... 18" is a modest compromise
@18" you can make it mouse proof ...
18" puts the brood box at a good working height.
@18" means anything falling out cant get back in unless it flys.... thats good!
18" means its out of the snow unless its really deep...
18" is 18" less of melting snow drenching the bottom of the hive an getting it cold in spring
@18" spores and bacteria from rain splashed mud dont get on the hive
(http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm242/derekm_2008_photo/IMAG0108.jpg)
I hope that is a sense of humor I detect
15 feet is not practical.
At 18" I couldn't work on my knees and nee walk between hives.
I love it and the bees benefit when they are snowed under, wonderful climate control
We get winds that blow semi's over and trains off tracks, down out of the wind is better.
My bottom boards cost me under $2 to make and last for many years in my high desert area We do not all live in the swamp.
Spores and bacteria live where my bees work and come home with them every day.
I plan on growing a crop and putting that fifth and sixth deep on and off full gets hard for an old man without intentionally making it worse!
Quote from: Vance G on March 02, 2012, 05:39:07 PM
I hope that is a sense of humor I detect
15 feet is not practical.
At 18" I couldn't work on my knees and nee walk between hives.
I love it and the bees benefit when they are snowed under, wonderful climate control
We get winds that blow semi's over and trains off tracks, down out of the wind is better.
My bottom boards cost me under $2 to make and last for many years in my high desert area We do not all live in the swamp.
Spores and bacteria live where my bees work and come home with them every day.
I plan on growing a crop and putting that fifth and sixth deep on and off full gets hard for an old man without intentionally making it worse!
Er, go back and read Derekm's post....he said the *bees* prefer 15 feet...if the bees are given the opportunity I'm sure that height would be very practical for them. Vance, you asked why people use stands and they're telling you, no one is trying to convince you to use them nor do you have to defend why you don't use them. As for the "We do not all live in the swamp" comment, I picked up on that and to be honest with you I'm glad we don't all live in the swamp, too,....I'm really not very fond of close neighbors. See ya 'round.
Intheswamp
Quote from: tefer2 on March 02, 2012, 01:09:25 PM
derekm, is that your hive stands in the picture? How do they perform in high winds?
yep made them my self
they came through this winter fine... and we have plenty of gales... I strap the hive to the stand. A std cheapo luggage webbing with a turn round the central leg.
what you dont see is that I put two 4" length of all thread into nuts welded in tothe bottom of two of the legs and a set of scales under the third.
Ok, I understand now.
Quote from: Vance G on March 02, 2012, 05:39:07 PM
...
I hope that is a sense of humor I detect
...
definitely !
I don't think this is relevant to you, Vance, but here is some evidence from tonight of why we use tall hive stands in Queensland and cane toad countries. I have heard they will tap on the hive till the bees come out, and gobble them all up in a week or so. And I haven't seen this, but I've been told they can climb on each other to reach further. I lost count at 50 beneath the hives.
(http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/648/bloodwood36.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/bloodwood36.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5027/bloodwood44.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/705/bloodwood44.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
The little coloured lights are cane toad eyes.
(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/4539/bloodwood37.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/855/bloodwood37.jpg/)
Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)
Lone
And I thought we had it bad with fire ants. Someone I've known in the desert south west of the US, maybe Tucson, AZ had a problem with bee eating toads. We just have skunks, a few birds and a few bugs/arachnids. Thanks for sharing that pic of the toads. I've never seen anything like them before. They look intent on eating your bees.
never seen that many toads in one place before.
...DOUG
KD4MOJ
Hey Lone,
Here's your solution. :-D
(http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/8869/25952241.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/25952241.jpg/)
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/2184/imagescach3zpi.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/imagescach3zpi.jpg/)
Nevermind, your talking toads not frogs. I don't think you can eat those.
Quote from: Vance G on March 02, 2012, 05:39:07 PM
I hope that is a sense of humor I detect
15 feet is not practical...
...I plan on growing a crop and putting that fifth and sixth deep on and off full gets hard for an old man without intentionally making it worse!
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z219/dug_6238/IMG_0091.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z219/dug_6238/IMG_0449.jpg)
My point being that even if you don't put them up on a stand, at 5 or 6 deeps high, we'll need to put
you up on a stand to work the top boxes.
Cane Toads! Did they take away your bb guns too? a blow gun would be fun I guess. Thanks for all the interest in my question. I found out what I needed to know. The bottom line is as usual, beekeeping is all local. I in no way meant to denigrate any swamp folks or people who have mountainous hives on stands that would blow over here in my areas winds. I have top entrances to limit skunk damage. Coons don't seem to be a problem. They would be up on any hive or stand anyway.
JMBlakeney, I'm not sure how many cane toads you want for a meal, but you are welcome to any I have spare. Actually, the poison in the toad has killed a lot of wildlife, including crocodiles and dogs, but some birds have learned to adapt by turning the toad over and eating the belly. The most problem to humans is generally a painful squirt in the eye.
Beyond, apparently the cane toad is native to Mexico, Central and Sth America, so no doubt it has hopped a bit into Nth America.
Vance, I don't know what BB guns are, but the old folks talk about daisy air guns they had as kids. I believe there is some legislation to protect the cane toads from cruelty, and they must be killed humanely. Somehow the government believes humanely involves cooling and freezing, though I reckon this would be slow torture for the warm weather creatures. And it's certainly torture for people who don't want the things in their freezer next to food. They banned toad cricket, too. There are other quick disposal methods, but I better not incriminate myself :) Anyhow, it seems a lot of beeks in different regions don't use hive stands, so apart from preventing rotting of the bottom, you probably don't need stands where you are.
Lone
Holee Patayta!
I don't envy you those monsters love! I lived in the Canal Zone when I was a boy, I don't remember seeing anything like these. Take a look at this THING! Click on the image for the BIGGUN!
(http://larvalsubjects.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/cane_toad.jpg?w=300&h=225) (http://larvalsubjects.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/cane_toad.jpg)
It's a sad thing, but I understand the desperation the farmers must have felt. I see all kinds of stuff come out of Australia I never expect! Here's a documentary on the subject, in 5 parts in You Tube.
Cane Toads: An Unnatural History (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mvV8OT-mmE#)
Yes Lone, I meant air rifles and I remember the price of scrap steel went down the infamous day that the Austrailian people were disarmed. I know those eyes at night would be all I needed for a target. Don't incriminate yourself, just carry on. When you get all the toads, come to Montana and start on the wolves for us sir.
Vance, I think you're confused, Lone is a woman.
Quotethe infamous day that the Austrailian people were disarmed
Yes, and it's true all Aussies are disarming...just look at Geoff. :roll:
Boy you guys sure know how to discourage a new beekeeper, i am going to build stands about 30" high. That will take care of skunk and mouse problem,and all my hives i am using screened bottom boards w/solid 3/4" below screen.
Now if i can just figure out how to keep wasps and hornets away from hives i just may have some success. :?
I am trying something new (at least for me) this year. I used 2x8 boards nailed in a box form the size of my open landing boards, above that are my screened bottom boards. I cut 4 slots in the side with my skill saw (the width of the blade.) with ant screens on the inside. My thought is: the wind can not create a super draft up through the hive, yet still allow the heat of the colony to draft up as needed for ventilation. Our club is trying something similar but with round holes. I will try to update the forum on how these work for the bees. -Mike
All those little toad eyes creep me out, Lone.
-Liz
Lone! Excuse me for addressing you with an honorific that has come to be reserved for just males. No disrespect was intended. Although the original Sirrah! had a more gender neutral usage. Lone do you really care? I am sorry anyway if I offended.
Quote from: mikecva on March 09, 2012, 07:07:50 PM
I am trying something new (at least for me) this year. I used 2x8 boards nailed in a box form the size of my open landing boards, above that are my screened bottom boards. I cut 4 slots in the side with my skill saw (the width of the blade.) with ant screens on the inside. My thought is: the wind can not create a super draft up through the hive, yet still allow the heat of the colony to draft up as needed for ventilation. Our club is trying something similar but with round holes. I will try to update the forum on how these work for the bees. -Mike
[/quote
Are the 2X8 bourds sitting on the ground ?
QuoteLone! Excuse me for addressing you with an honorific that has come to be reserved for just males. No disrespect was intended. Although the original Sirrah! had a more gender neutral usage. Lone do you really care? I am sorry anyway if I offended.
Vance, that's quite all right. No offence taken. I think though that the word "sir" has not
come to be reserved for males, but started out that way! Actually I couldn't quite get used to being called ma'am either when I was in Nashville last year. As for lead poisoning the cane toads, that's not quite what I had in mind. I wouldn't want to create too many extra entrances into the beehives haha There are some other common cane toad culling methods widely used but perhaps not strictly legal now.
Lone
QuoteAll those little toad eyes creep me out, Lone.
-Liz
You should have seen me jump when I saw my first cane toad. I'm from Victoria originally. The blighters are spreading now to other states, but Victoria would probably be too cold for them.
Lone
"couldn't quite get used to being called ma'am "
Sir and Ma'am are in very common usage amoung the US states with a southern drawl. I used to work for two Canadian companies based in Vancouver, BC and spent quite a bit of time up there. Young ladies in BC really took offence when I called them ma'am. It was hard for me to quit and hard for them to stomach, me being 10 or 20 years their senior.
At my site the 2x8s will be sitting on inverted 'rubber' doormats in order to restrict the moisture. At the other site the 2x8s will be on the ground. We will be watching the moisture content of strips on the screened bottom boards. - Mike
Quote from: mikecva on March 13, 2012, 05:00:30 PM
At my site the 2x8s will be sitting on inverted 'rubber' doormats in order to restrict the moisture. At the other site the 2x8s will be on the ground. We will be watching the moisture content of strips on the screened bottom boards. - Mike
Mike, have you over wintered this way. I like the thought of a box under the hive that the screened bottom could be left open and screened slits to provide small amounts of air. I was wondering if the mice would dig under and make a home inside though.
Sorry Sparky, we just started using the 2x8 this February (late) so I have not over wintered with this base yet. Our plan is to leave in the screened bottom boards but close up the drawer opening as we usually do. We have had very strong winds off the mountain the last two winters that have caused up drafts through the cracks in our cinder blocks, so we are eliminating the blocks this year. So far we have been clear of mice. - Mike