How far does the queen fly on her mating flights? How far do drones fly? I have heard that the queen flies further so that she will not be likely to mate with drones from her own hive (her brothers).
This information would seem to be critical to efforts to saturate a drone congregation area. Does it help to have lots of drones from your beeyard in the air if they never mate with queens from the same yard?
Quote from: FRAMEshift on April 15, 2012, 01:15:47 PM
How far does the queen fly on her mating flights? How far do drones fly? I have heard that the queen flies further so that she will not be likely to mate with drones from her own hive (her brothers).
I thought so too. But I have read couple of researches which tell that queen visit very near, under 1 km distance.
It has been followed the time what queens are out and the flyings speed, queens do not go far away.
Queens make mating flight several times a day and they use 1-3 days for mating.
But I have yards where Italian virgins get much Carniolan blood, even if I cannot meet carniolans in flowers.
last Summer I got much Carniolan blood in several yards. It is Ok because cross breeded are good and vigorous foragers.
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In this research most mating flight durations were 15-20 min.
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/pdfs/Tarpy&Page.2000%20copy.pdf (http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/entomology/apiculture/pdfs/Tarpy&Page.2000%20copy.pdf)
If the queen flyes 20 km/ 60 min, it is 2 km/ 6 minutes and same time to return = 12 min mere direct flying. In this case much time is not for mating procedures.
Thanks Finski. That's a good paper.
In Larry Conner's Bee Sex Essentials, he reports that virgin queens typically fly about a mile (1.6km) while drones from the same apiary usually congregate within a third of a mile (0.5km). So if you're looking to saturate a DCA where your queens are likely to mate, you need to saturate them from outyards a couple miles away.
Books......sometimes nothing more than a reference of how many things over the years change. I've been told for years, as was mentioned in books, that queens flew up to 5 miles to mate. What a joke! Of course I have been told my own opinion over the years should not be taken with much more than a grain of salt since I have not "published" a book, somehow keeping me from clear of the "Academia" circles. Thank goodness for that! So take all this with the mindset that this is from some lower form of a layperson just thinking out loud.
In nature, the next feral colony over might be 100 yards or 1 mile. And the DCA are mixed with all types of drones. In fact, the colony producing queen cells will actually attract drones from neighboring colonies. So in the end, queens go only as far as they need to mate. I have found nothing to make me think that queens also bypass several DCAs on the way to "greener" pastures as was always mentioned. Nature has a way of making all this work out. But nothing is close to what has been stated in the past as far as I can experience.
What beekeepers do, is place 20 hives from twenty packages in the same area, with all the same genetic material, then worry about genetic selection, etc. And the "books" suggest this is ok since queens "out fly" drones by a mile or two, somehow magically traveling 5 times faster than they actually can. This all somehow "rationalizes" how it all fits together. But as recently mentioned on another thread, queen do not fly 5 miles on mating flights.
Anybody serious about queen breeding should know that separate yards must be maintained. I'm talking by several miles. Then you bring the best queen from one yard over to the mating yard with different genetics, graft, and then utilize the cells in that yard. That way, drones from that very same yard makes no difference to the mating of the queen. You have no inbreeding from ANY drones in the area.
Drone saturation yards are for making sure the "AREA" is saturated with YOUR selected drones, whether they come from the main yard or yards every mile out. They are not for some reason that the queens in going to outfly all the drones from the same yard that she comes from.
With this setup, there is no inbreeding from the same genetics. And this also offsets any unnatural situation that could be seen from large numbers of colonies in one area, which would never happen in nature.
I am glad I did not pick up a book years ago and follow the standard advice. And I can guarantee that the stuff printed today will be wrong in the future.
This is very interesting! Thanks for all of the links and opinions. We were just talking about this this weekend.
Quote from: BjornBee on April 16, 2012, 08:36:08 AM
Books......sometimes nothing more than a reference of how many things over the years change. I've been told for years, as was mentioned in books, that queens flew up to 5 miles to mate.
decades ago I was told that queens fly not miles but 5 km to avoid inbreeding.
The the queen flyes with high speed upwards and the best drone wins!
Yes, I was atonished about these researchs.
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