Hi, it has been 2 weeks since I have hived 2 packages, I looked today, found they are building combs that start out on the comb guide and then for some reason comb comes out almost to a next frame. Sort of between frames. Some combs seem to be joined together.
Another problem is that it has been more than 2 weeks and they only managed to build 50% of the comb in the 8 frame medium single box. (Not sure if that normal or not)
I know that I am suppose to cut them out and then (not sure how) put them back on the frames. I have a problem here, When I cut out extra comb on the wall of the box, it was full of bees, and for the life of me I couldnt get them off, also the comb was so fragile, that I seems to have distorted and / or damaged some cells (seems like if I try to cut it out, Ill just destroy everything in the process)
Also I seem to be absolutely clueless as to what they are doing. Some cells are packed with syrup, some clearly packed with pollen.
I am getting some plastic foundation next week, was thinking if there is an easier way to get all the bees onto a next box, with queen, so she can start laying on that foundation. Wait for the all screwy comb to hatch out, then cut it out and put it back? :? :?
The joys of foundationless that they fail to tell you about. It seems so good on paper.
It is going to be very difficult to get them to move on their own to plastic foundation. Is there one frame that is not too bad? You could move this up in the box with the foundation and queen. Put a queen exclude on the messed up box to prevent the queen from returning. Once the brood hatches, you could pull the messed up box and let them rob out any nectar.
Good luck.
Cut them out and tie them into the frames with rubber bands and string.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#messup (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#messup)
>The joys of foundationless that they fail to tell you about.
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#whatif (http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm#whatif)
I see just as many postings about messed up comb and have just as much messed up comb when using foundation. Combs between. Combs out away from the face of the foundation. Combs on buckled foundation, fins at right angles to foundation...
Hi Michael. What about my other questions?
1) When I cut out extra comb on the wall of the box, it was full of bees, and for the life of me I couldnt get them off, also the comb was so fragile, that I seems to have distorted and / or damaged some cells (seems like if I try to cut it out, Ill just destroy everything in the process)
2) Also I seem to be absolutely clueless as to what they are doing. Some cells are packed with syrup, some clearly packed with pollen. Is this normal?
3) Another problem is that it has been more than 2 weeks and they only managed to build 50% of the comb in the 8 frame medium single box. 50% as in all frames are filled with 50% comb, the rest of the comb is empty.
Thank you
>1) When I cut out extra comb on the wall of the box, it was full of bees, and for the life of me I couldnt get them off, also the comb was so fragile, that I seems to have distorted and / or damaged some cells (seems like if I try to cut it out, Ill just destroy everything in the process)
New comb is very soft and that is a problem. If you handle it gentlely you don't need to get the bees off. Just lay it gently on your glove while you get it in the frame (another set of hands is helpful if you can get them) and rubber band it in. They will fix what gets torn or distorted.
>2) Also I seem to be absolutely clueless as to what they are doing. Some cells are packed with syrup, some clearly packed with pollen. Is this normal?
Yes. They are just putting this somewhere handy to feed the brood.
3) Another problem is that it has been more than 2 weeks and they only managed to build 50% of the comb in the 8 frame medium single box. 50% as in all frames are filled with 50% comb, the rest of the comb is empty.
Quote from: samuils on April 30, 2012, 08:24:01 PM... I looked today, found they are building combs that start out on the comb guide and then for some reason comb comes out almost to a next frame. Sort of between frames. Some combs seem to be joined together...
Its more difficult to get all new foundationless combs drawn out right by just dropping them in a new super or brood box. You'll have better luck starting out with (say) half plastic foundation and half foundationless and alternating a no foundation frame with a frame of foundation. You may have even better luck beginning with all (say) plastic foundation frames and as you add new boxes and frames slip a foundationless frame between two drawn frames. You can always later scrape the wax off your foundation frames, remove the foundation, add a comb guide and presto you have a sans foundation frame if that is something you want to continue doing.
good luck
Quote from: Michael Bush on April 30, 2012, 11:57:01 PM
I see just as many postings about messed up comb and have just as much messed up comb when using foundation. Combs between. Combs out away from the face of the foundation. Combs on buckled foundation, fins at right angles to foundation...
I think it is fair to say there are more people using foundation than foundationless, and 95% of the issues beginners have with foundation is the fact that they have gotten bad advice and inserted a queen cage between the frames.
I learned from others on this forum the beauty of placing frames of foundation and/or frames of drawn comb next to foundationless frames. I place three or four of these in a ten frame medium. This seems to set things straight more often than not. I still have to get in there sometimes and trim a little but it hasn't gotten too much for me yet.
At this point, I only want to do natural cut comb honey so I gotta do what I gotta do. (I'll crush and strain the frames with the darker wax for my own use.) I put the frames with the foundation on the outside ends and one or two in the middle. The ones in the middle will likely be brood if not in an upper box and the ones on the side will likely be honey - or drones if they are lower down. If they draw honey on the frames with foundation, it's for the bees. It's always an adventure to see what the bees will do and where they will do it.
Do like MB said and treat it like a cutout...asap. Cut the comb to fit into frames as best as you can and use large rubberband to hold the comb in place. Yes...you will likely kill and squash a bunch of bees and they will not be happy, but it will be way better to do it now while they are new and still kind of disoriented, then later when they are fully established in messed up comb. You will probably want to change out as soon as they get established by moving it up and then out when there is no brood. I've found that messed up comb never fixes itself, makes inspections a pain, and is infectious to neighboring comb.
FYI - I tried foundationless on several hives and had a similar experience, it can work, but it's not for me....if I wanted to raise them naturaly, I would take them out to the woods and release them in hollow log, or under the crawlspace of someone's house and let them do their thing...they probably wouldn't survive the winter though. :-D.